Scenario Rework

[DiMakss]

to everyone i know

So you know nothing. I know people who have played only prem sc for YEARS, they will never leave the safe place without 80+ full geared premade.

Spoiler:

fun fact, most of them are wl\sl

[nocturnalguest]

to everyone i know

So you know nothing. I know people who have played only prem sc for YEARS, they will never leave the safe place without 80+ full geared premade.

Spoiler:

fun fact, most of them are wl\sl

I doubt

[CountTalabecland]

The point is that scens that end in surrender after 3 minutes are fun for no one.

As massive as some of the above e-peens are re not caring if the “scrubs” quit the game, I for one would like to see server pop crest 2000 again some day.

New players getting farmed until they quit is bad

[mynban]

I agree with all points.

Until such balancing change is done, discordant SCs should be solo queue only, since as you mentioned duo queue exploit is making it pointless.

[RuffRyder]

Full support here to the ideas proposed, especially combining those changes will hopefully lead to a better SC experience.

As a casual player regularly queuing solo in the past I can say that changes like Weekend Warfront for one very map and Discordant SC made me stop playing SCs almost completely.

Sad truth is that even better (random) comps won’t drive ppl to actually deliver a better performance, join comms, etc. so they could possibly win against those that do so, but it will at least improve everyone’s SC experience compared to today’s wastelands.

[Tabelrel]

Hey all,

Just my 2 cents. I don't necessarily disagree with the ultimate sentiments Gravord expressed just maybe the ultimate solution for it. I would just ask him to take into account these concerns and factor them into his thinking, perhaps he can refine a solution?

1. Everyone would like a more balanced match. Totally agree,no one enjoys a stomp. I don't think necessarily it needs to be 2-2-2 and in someways that formation doesn't suit all Scenarios and is indeed counter productive to a Scenario win. I think one of the Dev's pointed out that having a well balanced fight is not the same as taking the objectives and winning an SC. I've seen enough fights where one side is spawn camped but you have WE's/WH's or anyone else back capping and while they technically lose the fight they win the SC through achieving its objectives. Basically, is the purpose of an SC to win the fight or win the Scenario? I know it's dead now but if you are looking for a fight win then ranked is the better option as that is based on player kills and not objectives taken. Ideally though you want a balance of the two in a scenario a good fight leading to objectives taken.

2. Following up on formations maybe a SC will not kick off until it has 1 "pure" healer per group or if 12 man play it doesn't kick off until it has 2 full groups. How many times do you see 12 vs 7/8/9 and then the second group dribbles in over time but by that time the SC is lost. Can we stop that happening?
.
3. In point 2 I didn't mention Tanks but I've played in some great scenarios where you have no Tanks, good DPS supported by solid healing with a win. Equally had some great matches with Tanks,offensively specced and healers and 0 dps. This again is more the SC play objective, take and hold a flag(s) to win the SC. The key seems to be a healer, just make sure not a Hybrid (DPS) healer. Nothing against DPS Shammies etc as they are amazing at what they do just keeping a whole group up not so much and not their role.

4. I do agree with keeping premades away from Pugs in discordant but also agree with Detanglers point what is a premade? In a generally low pop game is this just the same players who have won and just re-queueing. Maybe as a test just turn off duo and just see does that help? If not i guess you are into stat analysis to see identify patterns of play but too much right now and is that in any way actionable? If it isn't actionable why attempt it?

5.My experience is that players will fight to a point but it does depend on the map. A singular objective map like Mourkain or Caledor Woods you are not going to throw yourselves against a well formed (perceived to be) premade in an entrenched position but a multi-objective map like Nordland/Reikland Factory you may look to break things up and succeed through smaller skirmish. Maybe this is where the Dev's could do some fine tuning/tweak on SC objectives gained point difference and crests rewarded?

6. Instead of guards/barriers perhaps implement the ORVR Warcamp buff. You get near the SC Warcamp you are going to get spanked but it means players with the warcamp buff getting out and doing the spanking !

In the end ideally avoid a strict formation setup, as that makes sense in ranked but may be boring elsewhere, and can lead to the loss of some interesting matchups but try to avoid total all dps vs 2-2-2 and have at least 1 pure healer per group. Encounters should be equal numbers before they fire not un-balanced in number. Come up with something where effort is rewarded over time, even if its small scale fights at flags to achieve an objective and maybe taking objectives adds more contribution to the SC than kills. I'm sure this is not the intended sentiment, but it should never be ranked is dead but lets try and resurrect the concept via standard Sc's. I think the horse has bolted and the stable door shut on that. Lastly I've seen some great dps only groups (ok generally Order) who have won the match against more balanced setups. If they want to play that way and have the Ballz to do it, should we stop them ?

[geezereur]

Removing disordant would be the same thing as forcing people to play ranked only. Yeah duos ruin it sometimes, just make it solo queue only.

You're not 'splitting the queue' as the people queueing discordant have zero desire to fight 6man discord premades anyways. Those premades can sit there and wait for another to fight (ala ranked). Have fun with that.

But premades in this game only wants to farm pugs and soloers they dont want a challenge just look at ranked.

[Detangler]

Most scenarios with singular objectives also have various means that can either buff the losing side (Ishas Will boost in Lost Temple of Isha), hinder the winning side (damaging the holder of the bauble in Mourkain Temple), or spread the winning sides forces (current weekend scenario - winners need to hold more and more objectives and defenders can interrupt the flow at any point and force winning side to retreat to recap). Usually people don't take advantage of this, but some maps an argument can be made that these mechanics need to be boosted:

Some examples:

1. Ores in Doomfist Crater should boost damage/health/healing all 3 by 30% and can only be picked up by the side that does not own the middle
2. Mourkain bauble holder damage should ramp up dramatically. Right now it can easily be won with winning side holding it twice in a row).
3. Stonetroll Crossing can be deleted from the game so everyone will be happy.

I'm sure there are other examples or ideas to help rubber band games to make them more competitive.

[Valfaros]

You dont need pugs protected for their whole life from premades.

I think this summarize your actual agenda behind these proposals perfectly. Or in other words please give me more pug stomping. Also the quote on Sun Tzu...cringe.

This is a gamemode that is not required to play. Make the player just a tiny bit miserable like some of your suggestions and they just stop the gamemode or game altogether. Like why would you play something that is not fun. Having to wait even longer for a shitty match to end isn't fun neither is getting forced to be killed 10 times. Also it's not great to be thrown into a tryhard meele train premade as range dps. A 10 s invlun won't change that. They will just sit on their mount wait for it to run out and slaughter you then.

Like all this talk to act like forcing 2/2/2 would lead to balanced fights and hence more fun for everyone. Lets just assume the fights are really balanced in this case. So how is the balanced mode working out? You know ranked that has like 0 players? Oh soo good. Cool then. However lets go back to reality. You know exactly what is going to happen even if the matchmaker would find the perfect setup vs a premade. They will still be getting farmed 0:500. And this get gut sentiment or players will learn and get better is a joke. If players would want that they would have done so several years ago. Some people just play for fun not to get good in a game that was not popular enough to stay in maintenance. And guess what, it is a substantial amount of the playerbase that just plays for fun.

Barriers are the worst thing that got added into scs ever. Simply makes me not want to queue them. Especially how they are introduced now. Oh the enemy stomped us I guess since some gave up there is no point anymore. Your solution. Just throw players back in, slap some invuln on it. Players that won't do that, throw them out of the sc. Give them quitter. Let the others get farmed outnumbered. So basically double punishment either way to face a premade. Shitty match, get farmed outnumbered for longer or shitty match and recieve a quitter debuff.

Don't get me wrong I think the addition of a invulnerability is a not bad suggestion but this won't be enough. What you want is a real big advantage. Be it a huge dmg boost on top (like previously the aoe cannons) or the guards that occationally help you out by taking out the tanks / dds of the premade. The best solution with barriers I would come up with (I still dislike them) would be a regroup phase and then teleport to a distant location in the sc together as the whole sc squad. Cause atm if you are a ranged dd and the meele train is before your gates it's pointless.

As for the matchmaker. It has it all wrong. You said it yourself. Sometimes other premades are running and you don't even face them with yours. This is exactly why the game should put a timer on the premade to find an enemy premade for 10-15 mintues and only then start to fill the enemy team with duo, trio, etc groups and then with sinlge queue. Same for duo/trio etc if there is no enemy duo or trio they wait and only get added in if there is sufficient space left (or after 10-15 minutes) after filling with solo players with an additional limit to how many can get added in if there enemy has no groups at all. This would drastically improve the quality of games, would make it impractical for premades to try to be smart queueing as duos and would lead to premades actually facing premades.

Edit. Based on the current population I would however welcome a removal of individual scs and more like random scs and pug scs option. Maybe give the option to opt out of a couple you really dislike. Also 2/2/2, 1/3/2 might be the tryhard combs but a match with only dps or tanks on both sides is actually quite alot more fun than 2/2/2 where sometimes nothing dies ever. Same for matches with just a couple healers and notanks. Maybe add a dps only sc, lel. Sounds like fun to me even though I would exclude myself as a dps healer.

[Ninjagon]

Any "better" matchmaking will cost more time (for SC to pop).
I am up for it, but nobody wants to wait for too long ...