[Marauder] Petition to make GI (Growing Instability) tactic baseline

[Vaul]

Assists are important and Mara's utilty makes them good at that. But Kills are over-represented in feedback in game and outside - scoreboard deathblows being the most obvious but also Enemy killspam and the Killboard. To get a Kill on the Killboard you have to do the most damage to a victim, but than only needs to be 1 higher than others who assisted and who may have contributed more with debuffs. But the killboard does show assists so we can look at that.

This is Kills + Assists per Death (KAD) for MDPS and Mara "performs" better than when looking at Kill Credit (KD). Although the typical Mara is still below the Choppa (raw damage is a good assist too) the upper band of Marauder fare very well, as do the outliers.

[Dajciekrwi]

The "crap utility" is what makes the marauder one of the most interesting classes in the game, if you are not able to use it, maybe the class itself isn't the problem

You dont even realize how funny this sounds for me, Bro )

[Cyrylius]

So, to clarify, marauder can not have damage any lower than other mdps (or its garbage) and also shouldnt do any utility that already exists on destro (cause its gonna be garbage).
Why do forum warriors oppose any differences between classes so much?

[Absinth]

how about we balance this first?

Spoiler:

Look at this city result from yesterday. All pro players and a very close round:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... e58ce61314

Do you see the Mara in first place that did 2 Mios more than the Slayer? Mara is rr73 (no sov obviously) and Slayer rr82 (both were champs in stage3).

Rampage overpowered and Mara needs damage buff? Yeah sure... what are you smoking?

Smoking that truth pack, city is not the best way of measuring balance, unless you want to measure balance when people grind each other at once place till the timer runs out, balancing this game around solo, small scale and large scale and meatgrind it is impossible. And even when we take in consideration this city than we can see that majority of that damage is fluff because slayers with way lower dmg than your examples have way more db's (kazzim having 2x more than the mara you cry about even tho he has 2x smaller overall damage, yet he has higher kill damage) not to say that the top5 DB's is slayer ridden and first destro top DB is 6 DB's short of tying with the 5th highest order DB

[Everdin]

So, to clarify, marauder can not have damage any lower than other mdps (or its garbage) and also shouldnt do any utility that already exists on destro (cause its gonna be garbage).
Why do forum warriors oppose any differences between classes so much?

Then remove utility and increase damage is the way to go

[Cyrylius]

So, to clarify, marauder can not have damage any lower than other mdps (or its garbage) and also shouldnt do any utility that already exists on destro (cause its gonna be garbage).
Why do forum warriors oppose any differences between classes so much?

Then remove utility and increase damage is the way to go

And that's why I'm asking about class differences

[Everdin]

Some testing from my side, I didn't want to blow it up and test for a few hours so i just used the pure and only base attacks - Armor debuff, Anytimer, Finisher (utility is for tanks!) and battled some constructs to compare.

To compare the other abilitys (that are capable of doing decent damage) here are the base values of my chars (different spec, different values)

Marauder - Thunderous Blow 685, Tainted Claw 578 Pulverize 662 gut ripper 614

Lion - Fey Ilusion 643, Lions fury 598 (spirit), Coordinated Strike 866 (x2 if pet is in range & on same target)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marauder 13/9 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Piercing Bite, Growing Instability

While under effect of Cutting Claw, Marauder base Impale was 587 while it crited up to around 1100, Guillotine Crited up to 1300-1400

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marauder13/9 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Feeding on Fear, Growing Instability

While under effect of Cutting Claw, Marauder base Impale was 527 while it crited up to around 1050, Guillotine Crited up to 1200

AA - 580 on non crit 850-100 on crit (Both arms combined) - 56dps & 54dps - 3,2 speed & 2,8 speed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lion: 11/13 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Pack Synergy, Pack Hunting

While under effect of Force Opportunity, Lions Sundering Chop was 512 while it crited up to around 1030, Cull the weak crited up to 1100-1200

AA - 600 on non crit, ~1100 on crit (Elf and Lion combined!) - 85,6 dps & 3,4 speed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lion: 11/13 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Loner, Pack Hunting

While under effect of Force Opportunity, Lions Sundering Chop was 623 while it crited up to around 900-980, Cull the weak crited up to 1000-1100

AA - 582 on non crit ~900 on crit - 85,6 dps & 3,4 speed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Base damage wise Loner Lion was on top followed by the Piercing Bite marauder, the marauder without Piercing Bite and then the Lion with Lion.

Critwise due to the missing pack synergy tactic the Loner Lion droped to the last place with a big room to place 3 where the lion with lion was and both marauder variants are on top.

The finisher battle was very close on the last places, while the Piercing Bite marauder got a biiiig advance.

Personal Notes: The numbers on the base side of boths classes are very compareable in my tests, while there are some outliners especially with loner base damage and Piercing Bite marauder. I have to say that the gear difference between my lion and my marauder is about ~40 str and ~90 ws, due to my marauder is much lower.

Feel free to contribute something or test yourself, maybe someone has more compareable setup of boths dps or just more time to test both in a more scientific way and provable way (Maybe I just made up these numbers!!!). This would be a base on that balances changes could be made. Some pvp statistic show nothing, they are depending on the targets that were choosen, the people in your group, and to a big amount the favor of the rvr at this point. If you constantly fight 12 vs 48 your damage will be low and your deathcount will be high.

[wildwindblows]

You are all missing some points here:

This is a group based game, and beside pure burst, armor debuff and outgoing healdebuff and pull the lion brings nothing). The marauder on the other hand debuffs armor, toughness, wounds and healing on the target, has a pull as well and is capable of removing aps and decreasing the amount of ap reg.

So... yes the lion is more on the epeen side of the table. While the marauder brings the whole group in the position to make influential damage to a target.

The issue is other dps classes doing x2 more damage than mara without any debuff. Mara cannot do proper damage even after applied all debuffs.

yeah. no. you are just plain wrong. maybe YOU do half damage that other classes and that seems like a skill issue.


Click here to watch on YouTube

just for reference

aoe mara doing well tho. I was talking about st.

[Cyrylius]

Some testing from my side, I didn't want to blow it up and test for a few hours so i just used the pure and only base attacks - Armor debuff, Anytimer, Finisher (utility is for tanks!) and battled some constructs to compare.

To compare the other abilitys (that are capable of doing decent damage) here are the base values of my chars (different spec, different values)

Marauder - Thunderous Blow 685, Tainted Claw 578 Pulverize 662 gut ripper 614

Lion - Fey Ilusion 643, Lions fury 598 (spirit), Coordinated Strike 866 (x2 if pet is in range & on same target)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marauder 13/9 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Piercing Bite, Growing Instability

While under effect of Cutting Claw, Marauder base Impale was 587 while it crited up to around 1100, Guillotine Crited up to 1300-1400

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marauder13/9 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Feeding on Fear, Growing Instability

While under effect of Cutting Claw, Marauder base Impale was 527 while it crited up to around 1050, Guillotine Crited up to 1200

AA - 580 on non crit 850-100 on crit (Both arms combined) - 56dps & 54dps - 3,2 speed & 2,8 speed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lion: 11/13 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Pack Synergy, Pack Hunting

While under effect of Force Opportunity, Lions Sundering Chop was 512 while it crited up to around 1030, Cull the weak crited up to 1100-1200

AA - 600 on non crit, ~1100 on crit (Elf and Lion combined!) - 85,6 dps & 3,4 speed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lion: 11/13 speced - Brute Force, Flanking, Loner, Pack Hunting

While under effect of Force Opportunity, Lions Sundering Chop was 623 while it crited up to around 900-980, Cull the weak crited up to 1000-1100

AA - 582 on non crit ~900 on crit - 85,6 dps & 3,4 speed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Base damage wise Loner Lion was on top followed by the Piercing Bite marauder, the marauder without Piercing Bite and then the Lion with Lion.

Critwise due to the missing pack synergy tactic the Loner Lion droped to the last place with a big room to place 3 where the lion with lion was and both marauder variants are on top.

The finisher battle was very close on the last places, while the Piercing Bite marauder got a biiiig advance.

Personal Notes: The numbers on the base side of boths classes are very compareable in my tests, while there are some outliners especially with loner base damage and Piercing Bite marauder. I have to say that the gear difference between my lion and my marauder is about ~40 str and ~90 ws, due to my marauder is much lower.

Feel free to contribute something or test yourself, maybe someone has more compareable setup of boths dps or just more time to test both in a more scientific way and provable way (Maybe I just made up these numbers!!!). This would be a base on that balances changes could be made. Some pvp statistic show nothing, they are depending on the targets that were choosen, the people in your group, and to a big amount the favor of the rvr at this point. If you constantly fight 12 vs 48 your damage will be low and your deathcount will be high.

Bear in mind, marauder should take all three tactics (pb, FoF, GI), and last one might be flanking. In assuming you decided to slot brute force cause your marauder is underlevelled. That could possibly make the numbers even more marauder favored.
More about the test itself however: abilities you tested are the ones mirrored pretty closely except the aa (as in, pet aa). ST marauder issues don't lie in low damage, they lie in damage being back loaded and tedious to set up. Marauder burst relies on getting someone below 50%, and as opposed to lion your means of doing that are very limited: rend is usually the best one, and it's not fast by any means. If we assume you set up full stacks of rend your damage is good, but that forces a very specific playstyle which is not easy to play and much less fun than other options. To put it simply, marauder lacks burst, not damage, and that's something you can't test in the way you attempted to.

[Amdus]

how about we balance this first?

Spoiler:

Look at this city result from yesterday. All pro players and a very close round:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... e58ce61314

Do you see the Mara in first place that did 2 Mios more than the Slayer? Mara is rr73 (no sov obviously) and Slayer rr82 (both were champs in stage3).

Rampage overpowered and Mara needs damage buff? Yeah sure... what are you smoking?

The fact that you disregard all the data collected through the killboard and you post a city trying to use it as a winner argument with a straight face, pretending that you "checkmate'd" destro "bias" is beyond hilarious, new guy. Something that I have learned this past years in the forums is that delusion knows no boundaries nor limits. Honestly, this is one of the worse posts I have seen this year so far, even serial whiners have better points.