WH - Need a Straight Answer

[Kaldus]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the helpful feedback, I’m getting it’s possible to be good but there are specific builds that are required and not great in WB’s, so mainly sc’s as solo is out for me atm with poor gear

I’m taking the advice of having DG and chilling in WB’s to build up better gear via crests. Hopefully that will give me time to get better with my own class but learning what works/doesn’t work on other classes.

[Gracey]

I dont get it. The class is great, in fact OP, for small scale - why would you want to play in warband when you will have much more fun and reward outside of a warband?

[lemao]

Class is amazing in scs, 6 man roaming, solo roaming, in city siege warbands (you usually run 2 single target groups and 2 aoe groups in these)
The ONLY content in which it isn´t S tier is in a 24 man open RVR Warbands.

[vipevox]

WH is good for :
- Killing oil
- Backcapping flags
- Mercy strike low HP people, from shadows
- Ganking solos who dont know detaunt button

++
Everything is very true. I will only add that the game most of the time is a massive run from both sides and for this reason many WH do not play solo. 3-5 to have at least some chance of getting a positive result. The most interesting game in this class, considering all of the above, paired with another WH.

[jughurta69]

WH is good for :
- Killing oil
- Backcapping flags
- Mercy strike low HP people, from shadows
- Ganking solos who dont know detaunt button

++
Everything is very true. I will only add that the game most of the time is a massive run from both sides and for this reason many WH do not play solo. 3-5 to have at least some chance of getting a positive result. The most interesting game in this class, considering all of the above, paired with another WH.

No lot of WH play solo , solo WH is very cool sometimes with mates . But paired with other WH or party WH for me are not fun ....

[dtjror]

Read the original post. How many times does he need to say it - he does SCs (likely disco) and “random” (i.e., open or non-guild) WBs. In this context, as a fresh 40, he’s gonna get slaughtered if playing aggressively. No, he’s not going to be very good in SCs (even disco) or small scale at this point (when most people are in much better gear - which is a problem all fresh 40s face - not just WH).

Sure, he can be part of a WH gank squad, but is that going to be a particularly fast or effective way to progress? I’d argue no. Better to ride the zerg playing relaxed and casually until the gear and rr come.

[Panzer80]

WH is useless 98% of the time, because it's one of the most specialized classes. WH has very high burst damage potential with great gear, and 80 renown rank, but after its initial 20 seconds of usefulness, the class needs to reset back to stealth and let the cooldowns reset. If you're ok with that keep playing it. If you're the slightest impatient, I'd suggest another class.

[magisticus]

Hitting L40 is the worst time for witch hunter, it gets better as you progress. As a main WH i would agree with most of the comments that this class does not contribute well unless set up to be a dragon gun debuff machine which is not fun and not how most WH play. In scenarios that are flat out dps matches you are never going to have a good time, the ones like reik factory where you can split up the opposition where outmatched are much more WH friendly, or dwarf road for that matter. 6v6 Gate of Ekrund isn't bad either if you can take out the enemy healers. Main problem is in a group you are very squishy and your opposition is buffed enough to not get killed by your burst damage, so you need to time your attack for when you see an opportunity, ie team up with the other dps.

However, as a Wh you can also play solo, you don't have to play solo and can join a group sometimes but when there's 100% aao and Des are wiping the floor with the order WBs you can still play and have fun. The other classes don't have this, they have to team up to survive. When playing solo you need to pick your targets, remember the ones that beat you and don't fight them again until you get stronger.

You can adjust your set up before you engage appropriate to your target, changing your tactics and bullets. Your easiest target are Sorcs, followed by Magus, Squiggie, Choppa imo. Don't start a fight with a tank unless you are very aware of what else is around because it is going to take time and by the time you've finished something else will have turned up to join in.

Also think about how to get away, Sancitifed Oil is awesome (and overlooked a lot) and can be used offensively to gain speed and get behind your target and defensively to escape, it also allows you to use sudden accusation, burn armor or fanatical zeal again, so if you use it in your initial burst you can do the following - Burn Armor (2 accusations), Pistol Whip (3 Acc), Sanctified Oil, Sudden Accusation (5 Acc), Burn Away Lies, at this stage your target is still on the floor from pistol whip, you have hit it with a 5 accusation Bal while debuffing it's armor and it has 4 ailments (the other being from your bullets) - a reasonable place to start, but if you do that then you don't have the option of using Oil to get away or using shroud for your 100% disrupt, still this will kill quite a few targets on its own.

Other than that at a low level your main objective should be to improve your damage, you get some oportunity to build in defence later but early on you just need to kill before you get killed so max out your strength then work on crit chance. BAL, while cleansable is the most damaging attack you have, and most people don't cleanse it the first time you kill them.. So from that tree you want BAL, pistol whip and Sanctified Oil. Then you need to make choices, because Seal of destruction is useful for your burst damage (and you can use it before you unstealth) but in the other tree you have 2 awesome abilities which give you 100% respectively disrupt and parry for a short period. Bear in mind here that you can combine 100% disrupt with a 35% damage bonus tactic when you disrupt an attack, this is not nice for those solo sorcs and magus! You also have a tier 1 morale (confusing movements) that gives you 100% parry and dodge however and that can be used instead of Repel Blasphemy for short period parry or together to survive in fights for a long time, together they make up 17 seconds in every 60 that you have 100% parry.

To be really awesome (which I am not) you would want to be very aware of the distance to your target, if you can step out of melee range for cooldowns and then back in you can beat much stronger opponents and many of your opponents are more reliant on their class abilities than positioning, whereas as you play WH you will develop more awareness of positioning (as do WEs). To help you with this you have your speed boost from oil, the ability to shake off enemy slow downs with Sigil of Sigmar and a 40% speed debuff if you can get a snap shot off into the back of your target (just step away and use it once).

If struggling early on team up with another WH. Be cautious of Witch Elves, at rank 40 they have the same ability you have to stun you and re-engage, so if you don't kill them straight off (and some can be quite tanky, in WH terms anyway, these days) then you will have a rough time. Lots of them are also going around in packs so if you see one watch what it's doing for a while before you have a go at it.

As with all other classes remember that its a game, have fun and don't get too beat up about dying a bit.

Edit: Another thing - the other soloers are running around with pots so you need to as well, you will want strength, armor and healing pots at least, preferably a heal over time pot (to use when needing to run away) and also preferably an absorb pot (from butchering bats in caledor); While this is annoying and it is a time or gold investment it is sadly part of the stats solo characters have.

[Rapzel]

Spoiler:

WH is good for :
- Killing oil
- Backcapping flags
- Mercy strike low HP people, from shadows
- Ganking solos who dont know detaunt button

WH is bad for :
- Playing in WB vs WB, albeit you can get remotely decent results with DG build and regen bullets (getting back to full HP hitting half a WB is always satisfying), but you will lack frontline capabilities, as much as AoE ones,

- Catching kiting targets (no reliable speed increase, nor gap closer, unlike pretty much all other mdps around). One bump from a shaman and it's basically over for you ; the time you need to get back to your target, you will be either dead or our of range before he's back to full HP.

- Doing good 1v2+ ; your aoe detaunt is not 100% uptime (unlike other mdps, again), and your defenses are only for 5-7s against melee or ranged, a short timeframe during wich you need to kill one target, a rare scenario only occuring because opponents are underleveled/low skilled players.


To elaborate, the main issue of WH is to be completely tactic-dependant ; while all other classes got their mechanics working in reliable fashion from scratch, WH absolutely need 3 tactics, just to make the class at same level as others :
- Flowing accusations to get his class mechanic not shitty
- Blessed blade to make it for the uber lack of WS (you got like 350 WS in BiS, yay)
- Fanatical cleansing to get decent crit damage
- And a "free" tactic slot, usually needed either for brute force (because even with full STR talis you wont cap your main stat) or sanctified bullets (for regen build).

Play any other mdps without tactic, you'll quickly see for them tactics are only bonuses over a good and working class mechanic. WH is not like that, sadly.

Add to that you need to spec half your renown into crit chances, because even with BiS you will cap upon 25-30% crit chances, wich will prevent from speccing defensively, because all your damage is solely relying upon crit damage and proc damage.

Another big issue is to be pidgeonholed into one or two specs ; one being uber squishy, and remotely more punchy, the other being in every way inferior to his WE def spec counterpart ; survivability is better (100% parry/disrupt, regen bullets) but you need to face squishy opponent to get reliable win before he flees or gets supported, wich is usually a death sentence for the WH.
You cannot go back into incognito when people are hitting you, unless you get cover or a way to hide/jump back far away, unlike the WE that just can flee away and vanish thanks to her absorb tactic preventing damage.

The other issue is WH doesnt have reliable speed increase or gap closer skill (WE got two, a 45ft jump and a speed tactic), wich makes him very vulnerable to pretty much anyone that can bump/knockback ; the charge skill will prevent you from using Shroud of Magnus (your only reliable defense against magic), and vice-versa, while you cannot snare your target while charging forward (unlike gobbos who will just laugh at you while wrecking you from afar).

Finally, WH is ultra weak against high parry, so unless you manage to always hit fro behind, even using Invader gear (7% parry strikethrough), you will often end up losing big time against tanks or other mdps that can have parry gear or tactics, and will destroy your build :
no hit = no bullet proc = no regen, etc.


So, while WH can get decent results in some specific fights, the non-meta class and inability to have good mobility, AoE nor polyvalence dont make it a good class overall.
You can gank lowbies and play hide and seek against unaware players, but dont expect to be a solo roamer godlike, despite what you may hope watching Mdvp videos... :/

Yes AoE armor debuff, stake so enemy can't res, both outgoing and inc heal debuff to pick of enemy healers are bad tools. That's why we never see 2 single target groups built around WE and WH in city.

WH is really good atm, it is not as strong as other careers in every situation, but instead you are the apex predator of solo.

[Caduceus]

As people have pointed out, when you hit level 40 that's usually where relatively speaking you are at your weakest. That can be very demotivating.

On the topic of WH, here's what I think with regards to viability in different game modes:



1. Solo:

Very strong. Probably the strongest along with Witch Elf. With the right gear and build you will be able to take on any class 1-on-1, and many classes will just be helpless against you in a 1-on-1 fight. Stealth and escape tools give you extreme control that will mitigate the danger of being caught outnumbered.


2. Discordant SCs:

Very strong. If you spec for damage, teams in Discordant SCs will usually lack the organisation to deal with your burst, and due to your escape tools you do not have to rely on your own team to stay safe.


3. Regular SCs / 6v6:

Viable. The increased organisation on the enemy teams will often disallow you from taking down targets solo. You will need a skilled team that can use your strong burst potential to score kills. Here WH lags behind compared to more dedicated melee brawlers like Choppa and Slayer, whose sustained damage is often enough to take down targets. A WH will have to rely on good setups with their team to make use of their burst window.


4. 24v24:

Viable to good. There's a niche here for WHs as part of a single-target group, and in that role WH performs very well. Your staking ability will allow you to take healers out of the fight for a prolonged period, which can be extremely powerful. The only issue here is that a lot of low-organisation warbands will not bring single-target groups to city instances, so this generally only becomes an option once you become more geared and find a strong guild.


5. Large-scale RvR:

Unviable. WH simply lacks good AoE potential to make an impact in large-scale fights and in this setting I have yet to find any redeeming factors for WH. However, that doesn't mean you cannot be useful. There are various specialized tasks that WHs can perform due to their stealth, such as scouting and infiltrating enemy keeps. You can also still roam around the edges of fights and pick off vulnerable targets there. But stay out of large-scale blob fights.



All-in-all WH is an interesting class with a specialized skill set, focusing primarily on single-target burst. WH is viable to good in most game modes, except large-scale RvR fights where its lack of AoE potential basically makes it useless.

WH gets a bad reputation, because WHs in particular tend to level to 40 with a very solo-oriented playstyle. This no longer works at 40 in any of the more organized game modes, and this is what leads to a lot of misunderstanding and frustration.

If you stick to WH make sure to get a firm understanding of how you function in the context of your team.