Patch Notes 30/03/2023

[Kaeldrick]

Elite sc players? I don't know what you are talking about then, maybe guild premade groups in sc? Yes they will stomp pugs but only because they communicate. A team stomping weekly scs isn't necessary strong enough to queue ranked, most of time it's far from it.

[Nameless]

Yeah remove barriers and put guards in like it was back on live. Made it useful to stay in scen as always a chance someone would over extend into guards and you get kills. Now its afk till 4 mins and surrender if totally outmatched.

This + add shared renown from guard kills (like it was on live) and you will see much less surrender votes since you got chance to kill careless premade members.

[cromathor]

Yeah remove barriers and put guards in like it was back on live. Made it useful to stay in scen as always a chance someone would over extend into guards and you get kills. Now its afk till 4 mins and surrender if totally outmatched.

I can appreciate the idea but if they really want people to stay in SCs then they need to give them something to do. There are no comeback mechanics in most SCs, and it's not even a small majority.

Gates of Ekrund - Multiple BOs
Nordenwatch - Multiple BOs
Khaine's Embrace - King of the Hill
Mourkain Temple - King of the Hill
Phoenix Gate - Capture the Flag
Stonetroll Crossing - God Awful CtF
Black Fire Basin - Capture the Flag + King of the Hill
Doomfist Grater - King of the Hill + Tactical Obj
Talabec Dam - Capture the Flag + King of the Hill
Highpass Cemetery - King of the Hill
Tor Anroc - King of the Hill
Lost Temple of Isha - King of the Hill + Tactical Obj
Thunder Valley - Multiple BOs (Though they lock so KotH)
Logrim's Forge - Multiple BOs (Though they lock so KotH)
Battle for Praag - Multiple BOs (Though they lock so KotH)
Serpent's Passage - Capture the Flag + King of the Hill
Dragon's Bane - Multiple BOs and Tactical Obj
Blood of the Black Cairn - Multiple BOs (Though they lock so KotH)
Caledor Woods - King of the Hill
College of Corruption - King of the Hill
The Maw of Madness - Tactical Obj
Reikland Hills - Multiple BOs (Though they lock so KotH)
Gromril Crossing - Multiple BOs (Though they lock so KotH)
Black Crag Keep - Multiple BOs
Howling Gorge - Multiple BOs (Though they lock so KotH)
Twisting Tower - Multiple BOs and Tactical Obj
Reikland Factory - Multiple BOs
The Ironclad - Multiple BOs
Daemonball Rally - Multiple Capture the Flag
Pyramid of Settra - Multiple BOs
Ratnorok - Whatever.

17 out of 31 SCs have 0 comeback mechanics for when a team is losing to force the other team to either break apart or make some tactical decision in any way. Even in many of the other SCs, such as Ironclad, though there is backdoor potential to force the other team to split up or move around - The winning team can simply just spawn camp and remove any chance of victory or tactical play at all.

If they want to hold players hostage in losing SCs then what do they expect them to do while they are there?

It's even worse knowing that they have the ability to actually edit and create their own SCs to enhance the game above this terrible gameplay but instead they listen to this dumbshit whiner ass community and their stupid daily 'I no like surrender" threads.

[Cornerback]

Is there really so much crying for one or two less crests for a lost sc?
Unbelievable. At a time where there is a single currency and a plethora of sources where it can be debased this is strange to say the least.
The equipment farm is downright trivial and too easy.

It's not about the crest. It's about the limited resources being spent on stuff that makes the game even worse instead of better.

[Akalukz]

put AAO in scenarios, but make it based on # of kills and points. So the more a team is behind in points AND in kills the better the rewards if they stick it out and fight, more renown and more crests for kills/points

[Detangler]

put AAO in scenarios, but make it based on # of kills and points. So the more a team is behind in points AND in kills the better the rewards if they stick it out and fight, more renown and more crests for kills/points

That's probably the best thing to come out of this thread. I like it.

[tvbrowntown]

put AAO in scenarios, but make it based on # of kills and points. So the more a team is behind in points AND in kills the better the rewards if they stick it out and fight, more renown and more crests for kills/points

That's probably the best thing to come out of this thread. I like it.

that would make it unfair for a scenario that has a close fight then? if you're better off getting rolled than fighting that's sorta encouraging the wrong behaviors.

the big brain move is to just NOT punish people for not being able to compete. it's so obvious but the RoR guys have a hard-on for punishing behaviors when the best course of action is to encourage certain behaviors instead. you don't encourage certain behaviors by punishing opposite behaviors - that's just forcing outcomes.

generally speaking people don't like being forced to do things.

[Rapzel]

How come there's so many group ranked games played this preseason then? I mean if no one was interested there would be no games right?

There have been a lot of games for 2 reasons.

A. 6v6 teams were pretty active recently so they were playing each other more.

B. A couple of community members started putting together 6v6 events aimed at friendly, teaching matches. The teams are assembled and matchmade beforehand so the quality of the games is better than the Solo Ranked system, which is less frustrating to many.

Yes I am aware of this, what the solo heroes want to point out is that every premade in the weekend event SC are just there to pump their own egos and that it is the reason ranked "died". To this I counter with the fact that we've never had as many group ranked games as we've had in this preseason, which points towards ranked group games are more popular now than ever.

Please just stop, this is hilarious.

Nowadays there is simply most to zero effort required to get a 6vs6 going. You just gather 5 people together with you in a party, click on "queue for rank grouped" and you're ready just needing to wait for another group to queue.
Do you wanna know when effort was required? Back in the days on live, when discord wasn't even invented and you were restricted to one faction per server. If you wanted to have a proper 6vs6 you had to set up a date with time and place via forums and stuff.
Nowadays you can even just jump on discord and ask directly. So don't tell me it requires effort now.

And because we are talking about "elite playstyle groups" and the mentioned "glorious premades" (which I thought was clear means the premades that play together every day) it requires even less effort because they just need to gather the usual suspects and click on the queue button.

I don't care about people randomly gathering a 6 man, everyone can do this.

Your best argument is that you had to post on forums and now Discord exists? Because in 2009 software like mIRC didn't exist, and no possibility to create channels for things such as setting up 6vs6.
Just because the platform of communication has changed, it doesn't mean that the process of setting up 6vs6 has changed. You still need 12 players, which you agree to, and they need to play the right classes, people still setup all these other parameters as well.
No I am quite sure you have no experience in this area.

So let me get this straight, it's easy to get a 6vs6 going, you just invite 5 other people and click queue for rank grouped.
Though you are talking about the 6 mans that play together on a daily basis, and don't care about the people that gather a 6 man, because everyone can do that?
So if I gather 5 people from /5 it's okay to queue weekend SC? But not if we play together on a daily basis?
If me and my group take Wednesday off every week is it okay for us to queue weekend event then? Or where is this set boundary?

Moreover RoR is almost turning 10 years old, and you refer to things that happened back in 2009? RoR is almost twice as old as Live got, maybe you should let go of Live.

[deepruntramp]

The changes to concession prize crests still haven’t actually been justified.

What problem is the change attempting to solve?

We’re just assuming that the staff believes surrendering a match doesn’t “deserve” 2 crests, but that’s pure conjecture as nobody seems to be communicating what the problem was. A GM on Discord claims there was an organized surrender ring to farm crests, which is both as effective and as plausible as it sounds.

Who is this change for?

This is the hairy bit, because the obvious answer is “pub stompers in Tier 4,” which either means the problem being solved is “the hardcore are mad they aren’t getting to farm players for 15 minutes straight,” or that the change is so poorly thought out that who would benefit from the change was simply never considered.

Given there’s a special clause just for Tier 4, somebody clearly put at least a little thought in, so I strongly suspect it’s the former. That would imply the hardcore minority who spend their time chasing off new users have socially engineered their way into the design space. This is always toxic and red flag on par with “the calls are coming from inside the house.” Thirty seconds of critical thinking should reveal why you shouldn’t let people who are already in positions of power dictate policy.

Are you trying to motivate people not to surrender? Negative reinforcement is the wrong tool to use for all the same reasons economic austerity doesn’t work: animals which feel helpless stop trying - including humans. It’s called learned helplessness. Making people feel more helpless will not alter behavior.

What *will* alter behavior is using your position in design to find ways of proving they aren’t helpless. Mythic knew this. Guards to punish spawn camper hubris or super powered siege weapons in camps were two methods included expressly for this purpose. Unfortunately, over time you either removed or neutered both. Now there’s nothing to do but afk and wait to lose - or surrender and save some time. Everybody chooses the latter. Remove rewards for those who do that and you’ll be left with the former. And if you think they won’t AFK, I can personally promise you that pug teams faced with premade farm teams who ignore objectives to spawn camp for kills are absolutely stacked with players who are more than happy to sit safely out of range and taunt the premade for fifteen minutes instead of giving them they easy kills that they want. And those premades will be right back on your doorstep screaming for harsher punishments on AFKers or people that don’t leave the spawn.

[Dackjanielz]

lmao RIP SC's