A Lesson From Guild Wars 2

[Zxul]

-Player behaviour : Yes. Lets be honnest. Thats reassuring for lot of player to maximize gains while minimizing risk a.k.a "path of least resistance". Being in a huge amount of players can allow you to be less vigilant and still be rewarded, even with crumbs, but it is better than nothing with a minimal effort.

Maximizing gains while minimizing risk/effort has been around since AoR days though (or lets face it, its part of human behavior since back when our ancestors were still living on trees). Thing is, back in AoR days devs knew how to work with it- while in RoR one of main motives is "above all- players should not get free rewards, no matter the consequences". See as example lords added to keeps- which add nothing to keep defense, only reason those are there is to prevent taking keep solo/as a small group (a result- instead of having to worry about other zones being ninjaed by a small group, the blob can zerg in one zone- between SoR and lord, they will always have time to react if the other side attempts to take other zone). See BOs changed from npc resource runners giving renown ticks to all in zone, to boxes run by players and giving contribution/renown only to those (a result- instead of roaming and pvping, a pizza delivery simulator). See empty keeps taken giving a very small renown tick (a result- no reason to try and ninja an offzone keep while blob is zering the main zone- meaning blob can keep zerging without having to worry about the offzones).

So there are easy ways to break the zerg- but those will mean players being able to get large rewards with a small effort- won't happen in RoR.

Then there is also the fact that lot of effective solo builds from AoR are removed in RoR- part of "WAR is not a solo game" philosophy. A 1v2 in AoR will always result in 1 ending up dead if 2 have a base idea of what they are doing (that is speaking as one of the 2). A result- instead of trying to make a good solo builds and roaming, it is more effective to blob up and zerg. Once again, won't change- "WAR is not a solo game".

[Dajciekrwi]

Should we really e.g. give 2 WB the tools to beat 4 WB? Shouldn't we promote having 3 WB vs 3 WB instead?

Sulorie if You lack a WB on one side, well just make one ! lead the ppl make War great again!
But first explain me why i never see you playin in wb ?

[Tesq]

Should we really e.g. give 2 WB the tools to beat 4 WB? Shouldn't we promote having 3 WB vs 3 WB instead?

Should do both is the answer.

[rejndjer]

Spoiler:

reason why zerging is OP in gw2 is because there's no collision. your task is to blob all people in exactly same spot as leader and move with him, while spaming aoe ****. oh and dont remind me about mass invisibility. there are some things that gw2 does good, and it's good to look up to these. but reducing mount efficiency in any way i think would be detrimental to solving "zerg issue" in ROR. imo it would be better if mounted people were granted some kind of skill that would be very helpful in zerg flanking. since that's a real life counter to zerg.

another real life counter to blobs that's absolutely supernerfed in this game is artillery. if artillery was buffed to play a meaningful role in game, it would go a long time to decimating blob fights in some popular places - like martyrs square praag, etc. but i know that will never happen because pro ror players are against the idea of one solo player actually having an influence on rvr.

You mistake the artillery has alredy being buff and nerfed because is impossible regulate it in sich were blob is forced such bottleneck and keep siege. Thus thus some wb exploited hard even when they were having more numbers than other side, again not well thinked change which ppl alredy saw the exploit but tested anyway.

from what i remember from live times, siege weps actually had a use-case there. right now they do less fluff dmg than sw, only thing they're used for is oil and that's it. on live i remember that everyone had to hug the wall of inner keep as tight as possible to minimize all the aoe dmg that was flying around. yet now when there's siege it's an afk-fest. very fun. nice solution. gj.

[teoklas]

Just increase the range from where you can see enemies, its impossible to kite a zerg if by the time you see them you've only got 2 seconds to run from it. Draw distance in video options only works for enviroment objects.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

reason why zerging is OP in gw2 is because there's no collision. your task is to blob all people in exactly same spot as leader and move with him, while spaming aoe ****. oh and dont remind me about mass invisibility. there are some things that gw2 does good, and it's good to look up to these. but reducing mount efficiency in any way i think would be detrimental to solving "zerg issue" in ROR. imo it would be better if mounted people were granted some kind of skill that would be very helpful in zerg flanking. since that's a real life counter to zerg.

another real life counter to blobs that's absolutely supernerfed in this game is artillery. if artillery was buffed to play a meaningful role in game, it would go a long time to decimating blob fights in some popular places - like martyrs square praag, etc. but i know that will never happen because pro ror players are against the idea of one solo player actually having an influence on rvr.

You mistake the artillery has alredy being buff and nerfed because is impossible regulate it in sich were blob is forced such bottleneck and keep siege. Thus thus some wb exploited hard even when they were having more numbers than other side, again not well thinked change which ppl alredy saw the exploit but tested anyway.

from what i remember from live times, siege weps actually had a use-case there. right now they do less fluff dmg than sw, only thing they're used for is oil and that's it. on live i remember that everyone had to hug the wall of inner keep as tight as possible to minimize all the aoe dmg that was flying around. yet now when there's siege it's an afk-fest. very fun. nice solution. gj.

What i ment was that here on ror it has been tested. And then nerf tought not reverted. If you look the dmg in etaine keep around the stairs in front of inner door when ppl is blob frontaly you can see how much is alredy potent if used in conjuction with a push, on top of have oil to add aswell is alredy good.

[rejndjer]

Spoiler:

You mistake the artillery has alredy being buff and nerfed because is impossible regulate it in sich were blob is forced such bottleneck and keep siege. Thus thus some wb exploited hard even when they were having more numbers than other side, again not well thinked change which ppl alredy saw the exploit but tested anyway.

from what i remember from live times, siege weps actually had a use-case there. right now they do less fluff dmg than sw, only thing they're used for is oil and that's it. on live i remember that everyone had to hug the wall of inner keep as tight as possible to minimize all the aoe dmg that was flying around. yet now when there's siege it's an afk-fest. very fun. nice solution. gj.

What i ment was that here on ror it has been tested. And then nerf tought not reverted. If you look the dmg in etaine keep around the stairs in front of inner door when ppl is blob frontaly you can see how much is alredy potent if used in conjuction with a push, on top of have oil to add aswell is alredy good.

maybe a solution would be to have special kind of siege weapons (buffed version) that can be spawned ONLY when aao is 40% or more or something like that? also these buffed versions can only be spawned within walls of your keep. if you go outside with them then they die like ram goin in pve.

[Tesq]

Just increase the range from where you can see enemies, its impossible to kite a zerg if by the time you see them you've only got 2 seconds to run from it. Draw distance in video options only works for enviroment objects.

Idk if they have some limitation but for sure a pre loading of alll the ppl in zone before the loading when they enter in visual range would help.

maybe a solution would be to have special kind of siege weapons (buffed version) that can be spawned ONLY when aao is 40% or more or something like that? also these buffed versions can only be spawned within walls of your keep. if you go outside with them then they die like ram goin in pve.

Tie things to aao and make it "dynamic" has always been asked but with little results must be hard to cod.

[Alubert]

People play blob because it doesn't require anything. They throw their mindless aoe and that's it.
The dmg of any non-ST skills should be reduced by 20-30%.
The difference between ST dmg and aoe needs to be much more visible.
And currently we have such nonsensical things like choppa/SL Losta Choppin/Flurry where aoe skils (3 target) hit similar to ST choppa/SL skill and they hit several targets, cost less ap than ST skill, require no target and have long range. Mele range should always be 5 feet.

Plainly, the game promotes not thinking and makes life as difficult as it can for those who want to play a more "advanced" style of game.

[Absinth]

As I've already proposed some months ago, the blob issue could be adressed by creating 2 separate game modes for RvR Lakes.

Currently one Lake is blobfest, the other is dead empty. What could be done is to make one Lake for warbands only, the other for solo and parties only.

This way warbands will not have the ability to get "renown" by jumping as 24 on a three men party, making the blobing less efficient, and making the fights fairer for everybody

Yes and just have warbands running in 6mans in the other zone