Dok and WP Shields giving running speed

[Detangler]

Good thing we have heroes like you to maintain the balance in the game

Shamans have a free tactic that makes them run 30% faster for 5 seconds, 25% chance of proc on being hit, every 10 seconds, and they can cast healing/damaging spells without loosing that (and they are a ranged class that does not have to stop to cast its spells).

But a 12% chance to proc a 20% running speed for a melee healer equipped with a specific shield is "stupidly strong" ?

Can you tell me Detangler what are the drawbacks of playing chalice/book compared to shield ? You heal more, you die less, it works in any situation, you don't have to worry about being kited, your healing isnt negated by parry/block stacking and absorb effects on targets, tanks can save their guard for a melee damage dealer... The only reason to play shield is because you find it less boring than backline healing.

It's actually so easy to play book/chalice that pretty much any healing warrior-priest or DoK runs that spec, and that warbands or 6men tryharding kick you if you use a shield because they find it inconsistent, and it's inconsistent because of how easy it is to kite (among many other things I just listed). But making a shield functionnal would remove the "only" drawback from the spec according to the enlightened Detangler

Shield dok/WP gets to put out good assist damage that a book/chalice spec does not all while maintaining similar healing rates. Ranked was full of shield spec dok/WP for this reason.

So yes, there are still huge benefits of going shield over backing healing. It's already quite powerful in organized play. Low gear disorganized pug - not so much. Buff it more and it will easily outperform backline heals in every aspect for organized high level groups.

Guess you should think about all situations when you talk about balancing, huh?

P.S.Thanks for the attitude and sarcasm, by the way. It goes well with my morning coffee.

[Mvl130]

Yeah so, Detangler you're the one who started on sarcasm. I'm making a suggestion to make a mostly useless item into something that can be helpful if you have some luck on your proc, and your answer was :

So you want to have zero drawbacks over chalice/book healing? Got it.

Sarcasm.

Are you actually saying that because with SHIELD you BLOCK so much dmg so that this proc is useless whilst saying Shammy doesnt block or parry(they do parry btw) and using it as a bad thing for shaman that they cant Block?

Did you know that as a warrior-priest, if you try to use Judgement on a shaman to snare him, you're going to proc his running speed tactic, so you're actually making him run faster by trying to snare him ? Judgement is a 20% snare, the shaman tactic gives a 30% speed bonus, so he just ends up running 10% faster thanks to you. Isn't it great ? Now you can have all your fun looking at your shield while dying from the dots

[Sinisterror]

Yeah so, Detangler you're the one who started on sarcasm. I'm making a suggestion to make a mostly useless item into something that can be helpful if you have some luck on your proc, and your answer was :

So you want to have zero drawbacks over chalice/book healing? Got it.

Sarcasm.

Are you actually saying that because with SHIELD you BLOCK so much dmg so that this proc is useless whilst saying Shammy doesnt block or parry(they do parry btw) and using it as a bad thing for shaman that they cant Block?

Did you know that as a warrior-priest, if you try to use Judgement on a shaman to snare him, you're going to proc his running speed tactic, so you're actually making him running faster by trying to snare it ? Judgement is a 20% snare, the shaman tactic gives a 30% speed bonus, so he just ends up running 10% faster thanks to you. Isn't it great ? Now you can have all your fun looking at your shield while dying from the dots

I havent said anything you say im saying/said, never even mentioned Judgement or that I said Run Away! is a bad tactic. You dont have to filter out all my other points if you cant answer em no worries. I played Heal shammy since 2009 and dps wp since 2008 so there is nothing you can tell me about these classes or this game. But we can play this game! Judgement/FoK are the highest hitting "Throw Dagger " Skills, actually the only ones that does any kind of actually useful Dmg, Procs . Probably because that with all other healer things gives dps wp a fighting chance against kiters.

As a dps wp vs dps shaman you cant cleanse shamans dots anymore and im 99% you could in Aor so there is very little chance to win against good shammy, with any class actually. But if you still could cleanse, detaunt, hots and Qe Proc will happen and you could have a chance.

[Mvl130]

Sinisterror what are you trying to say exactly ? Because on one hand you're explaining that you get basically kited to death and there's about nothing you can do, on the other hand you're saying that a 20% running speed bonus that may proc from a shield is a terrible thing for balancing the game

[Sinisterror]

Im saying that 20% Speed proc not breaking on ability use is too strong, even if it's 5 sec duration and not 10s. Espesially as a Wpn/Gear Proc. SW tactic getting 5 sec 20% Speed boost everytime they switch stance doesnt break on ability use. Imo this is good but SW is in a weird spot and i cant make this Tactic work smoothly enough but that is just me and my bad SW Skills.

30% Run away! Is very powerful and there used to exist better counters to it but at least now it has 10 sec ICD.

[Mvl130]

Okay, but how is it normal that range classes end up having more mobility and control tools than a melee spec ? They already have the range advantage, on top of that they have mobility tools and multiple controls to prevent you from reaching them (snares from range, knockdowns and punts from range). And on top of all of that, as a shield healer you have almost no tools to close the gap.

In this configuration I can't see why a 20% running speed bonus from a specific shield that sometimes proc for 5 seconds with a 10 sec icd is a terrible thing

[Sinisterror]

Okay, but how is it normal that range classes end up having more mobility and control tools than a melee spec ? They already have the range advantage, on top of that they have mobility tools and multiple controls to prevent you from reaching them (snares from range, knockdowns and punts from range). And on top of all of that, as a shield healer you have almost no tools to close the gap.

In this configuration I can't see why a 20% running speed bonus from a specific shield that sometimes proc for 5 seconds with a 10 sec icd is a terrible thing

Well ofc ranged needs some CC because they will die if Melee dps catches em and your purpose is to Heal when using shield, 2H is for Dps. This build With Shield RoR.builders - Warrior Priest Using Shielding Grace against ranged IS a lifesaver because you get fresh absorb every sec and you are immune to roots/snares and when you use this ability for 10 seconds and Quick Escape Renown skill Procs it doesnt interrupt your Shielding Grace cast because you started the channel before QE proc.

Also there is very powerful Mobility/CC for Melee char's like WL Pounce SM Pounce that also has 60% aoe Snare or Fetch Marauder Pull, Choppa Pull Marauder also gets 100 feet 3 Sec Knocdown on disrupting skill but you can use it on anyone you want, just need disrupt. And Always Spec Full Dodge/Disrupt and Parry from Renown.

There is 24 unique classess so there is Counter to everything (Almost) and very Powerful CC are with both melee and ranged. Ranged Knockdowns used to only exist on order side, SW&BW. Pounce used to only belong to Order Side but now Melee SH has Pounce with all the other amazing OP tools. Imo SH pounce, ranged KD and Outta my Way should be removed along with WH/WE Speed buff on Vanish. Things would be much more balanced like that.

Also Old Engineer/Magus Magnet should really be brought back! Keep/Fort Wall pulling one. Wl's also should be able to pounce to keep walls. Remove GTDC and replace it with Aoe High dmg Ability, something ID like and Make Rampage work like it did in Aor. Morale Avoidances ignored rampage because obviously they are Morales, the most powerful abilities so to speak. Also Rampage Not ignoring Guard mechanics so no undefendable guard dmg for anyone espesialy for 20 seconds on best class in the game.

[Mvl130]

I see what you're saying when mobility used to be lower on certain classes and that when controls were not as numerous you had an easier time as a melee healer.

The point I was trying to make in this post is that in the current meta as a shield healer you lack tools to reach your targets, therefore you're unable to heal when facing kiting mechanics, which makes the spec very inconsistent. I'm proposing a slight change on one item, which is basically an inferior version of the tactic shamans have, so that you have a chance to sometimes reach targets that are kiting you.

You're proposing to undone changes that were made on this server regarding class abilities, and that might be a better solution overall. I was just trying to make a simple proposition that could be easily implemented

[Detangler]

Yeah so, Detangler you're the one who started on sarcasm. I'm making a suggestion to make a mostly useless item into something that can be helpful if you have some luck on your proc, and your answer was :

So you want to have zero drawbacks over chalice/book healing? Got it.

Sarcasm.

That's not sarcasm, that's contempt for a poorly thought out balance suggestion. Sarcasm would be more like "Wow, so you want to have zero drawbacks to shield dok/wp, great idea!"

Did you know that as a warrior-priest, if you try to use Judgement on a shaman to snare him, you're going to proc his running speed tactic, so you're actually making him run faster by trying to snare him ? Judgement is a 20% snare, the shaman tactic gives a 30% speed bonus, so he just ends up running 10% faster thanks to you. Isn't it great ? Now you can have all your fun looking at your shield while dying from the dots

Why are you solo attacking a shaman? You should be on the melee assist train with a tank applying their 40% snare with 100% uptime. Poor target selection is a player problem, not a class balance issue.

[yoluigi]

You should check my latest Wp shield showcase it's pretty strong sure some class might be better in certain situation but still very good. The 2h yes it's alot harder to play