Return of Reckoning

Hello,

Land of the Dead modern RoR version have been out for a long while now. And while it saw quite a few adjustments to the respawn rate of the neutral 3rd faction npc attacking the realm who is ahead, adjusting the number of participants, and later on adding the anti-zerg debuff for the more realmmates you have in your collision range. These values were also attempted adjusted. But then the adjustments kinda stopped for a long while and the morale-snowball and winrate started setting in.

While I do think majority of the leaders forming in LOTD are misplaying strategially and not understanding the map, the value in allocating forces in even numbers big open map where supply lines can be broken and playing the objectives smarter. The map and event have big potential if both realms start playing the mechanic "better". If it will still be the main approach to just blob up and win with just numbers advantage, then naturally no matter the mechanic or changes done to LOTD will never serve as a testing ground for improving oRvR lakes as it was maybe slightly meant to test out.

The Anti-zerg debuff reducing DamageOutput & HealingOutput is an alright attempt to try to impliment mechanics to lead playerbehavior in a direction. But it seems like it has not worked. And Since noone else seems to bring up this point, I figured I would atleast point it out.
The debuff is affecting both realms naturally, but I would argue that it affects Order more as they have a realm advantage in their healing modifers stacking on some of their core classes for group/warband play. A long with arguebly having an other slight realmadvantage in their damage output on warband aoe builds over destro semi mirrors.
Destro on the other hand have (had) realm advantages in morale pump, especially on tanks. But also on the whole department of stronger AoE CC such as:
- MSH Kaboom best aoe punt
- Monstro Mara AoE knockdown (unmirrored)
- Arguebly better AoE Soft CC such as snares. Blackguard 2handed frontal undefendable snares + DoK covernant procs leading to 20% snare walking on order.
- Choppablender speedup plus displacement pull. As long as the target is flying they cant defend and the whole blob have "Rampage" up while hitting the flying target(s) if you think about it

Naturally there are other effects at play such as ap drains, morale drains, better debuffs, mobility etc etc etc. But if I put it up a little black and white;
Orders realm advantage is to have slightly better AoE damage output and Healing stacking, these advantages are affected by the antizerg debuff.
Destro realm advantages used to be morale pumping to deal with the pressure of Order, but now pretty much relies on stronger crowdcontrol.

Now why on earth would Order be the realm generally wanting to stack and face a debuff going against their advantage is one argument we have seen topics about again and again. So regardless of missplay or not, should the zergdebuff affect these areas on DamageOutput + Healing? Or could it be adressed to also affect snares/CC to make it more even, or is it already fine enough for both realms in largescale?(since this only kicks in when blobbing)

I agree on the snares probably. But the other CC, after the first contact are not nearly as reliable as you would think due to long immunity timers

Its been a while since I've had the time to play during LotD hours, but from what I've read its been the exact same thing playing out week after week:

-All order blobs one direction and no one even tries to get other BOs or back caps Destro.
-Destro gets ahead in the objective numbers.
-The Order casuals start quitting.
-Destro now has numbers advantage on top of objective numbers.
-Snowball snowball snowball.
-Destro Wins.

Order needs to have at least 2 different 6-12 mans capping other objectives and trying to back cap destro. Until they start doing this there is no real point in debating all the good points Bombling brings up.

Unless there are actual Order players doing this, then please ignore my entire post. I honestly haven't done LotD in like 2-3 months. Not cause I dont want to. Its cause needy wife and needy kids take precedent over my pew pew magics game.

if u cant win 1vs1 u join athers. its same with lotd order pugs cant win destro 2xwbprem they join pug zerg.
there was ppl who whanted log order and show how its done. byt lotd still loosed. (even asked in global chanel to join lotd. becaus eppl leaved.)
maby its balance fault. dok snare best because wp dont have it. give order tanks morale build. also change kobs outgoing healdebuff to incoming, same as chosen. ( or give chosen outgoing healdebuff aura same as kobs )

All I read here is , order loses so it must be broken.
Where destro lose like fort is ok.

The anti Zerg mechanic works when you are in one ball, not on attackers surrounding giant ball as distinct warbands not to mention if your side ignored the objective to blob.

As seen in manny LoTD order often win in kills so it’s not cc or the debuff, it’s blobbing as one ball.

Acidic wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:49 pm As seen in manny LoTD order often win in kills

Not true. In primetime LOTD order loses both in score and in kills just about always.

Detangler wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:57 am -Destro gets ahead in the objective numbers.
-The Order casuals start quitting.

People don't quit because of a bar in the corner of the screen they may not even know exists. They quit after dying four times and still having 0 kills.

LOTD is a big scenario and like with every scenario, the secret is that the score doesn't matter. You win by farming the enemy so much they .surrender

taktaal wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:23 amLOTD is a big scenario and like with every scenario, the secret is that the score doesn't matter. You win by farming the enemy so much they .surrender

Agreed. LOTD enjoys the benefit of a large surface area which, if properly utilized or exploited, offers much potential for employing diverse tactics. However it is best viewed as a simple scenario with its own unique scenario mechanics.

You zerg once, to win the initial fight and to gain control of the one point on the map where everyone must go if they wish to establish control of the opposite side of the map. Establish that initial dominance and the rest, as has been proven, becomes much less difficult to achieve.

Order's biggest advantage is in funnels, which is why they win most forts.
Destro's biggest advantage is in open field, which is why they are better for RvR - numbers in LOTD multiply that

taktaal wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:23 am

Acidic wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:49 pm As seen in manny LoTD order often win in kills

Not true. In primetime LOTD order loses both in score and in kills just about always.

Detangler wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:57 am -Destro gets ahead in the objective numbers.
-The Order casuals start quitting.

People don't quit because of a bar in the corner of the screen they may not even know exists. They quit after dying four times and still having 0 kills.

LOTD is a big scenario and like with every scenario, the secret is that the score doesn't matter. You win by farming the enemy so much they .surrender

Explain how this relates to order winning in kills but still losing LotD, then. Cause right now your statement and the facts just don't line up.

taktaal wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:23 am
Not true. In primetime LOTD order loses both in score and in kills just about always.

The first LOTD after the numbers change, Order won on kills by a few hundred but didn't play the objectives... lost.
Second LOTD after the numbers change, Order brought 1 organised WB vs 3... two destro warbands playing defense, one playing offense. Lost again


Now that even numbers are somewhat enforced, bring some organised warbands to LOTD, coordinate, if Order still lose every time we can at least start talking about warband composition and eventually maybe balance.

Even the funnel advantage won't save you in fort if you're 1 organised warband facing 3.


____

As an aside:

When we had someone track forts for a month, controlling for equal estimated number of organised warbands on each side (based on the event times for all active warbands at the time), in full forts, you had 49% destro, 51% order winrates iirc. Now that doesn't necessarily mean order doesn't have an advantage in fort(funnels) - looking at slayers (and broadhead, remember the broadhead rage, guys? ) it may definitely seem that way - but it goes to show that you can't just look at superficial winrates and go "yep, obviously[...]". Maybe all of the funnel advantages go away vs good enough players, maybe the numbers just equalised because fmj constantly pushed double fort during the time and fights didn't even properly happen. Who the **** actually knows.
Same with LOTD.