Return of Reckoning

I would strongly suggest reworking Coordination tactic by replacing the Sunder with Shining Blade.

This is more thematically incline with the skill name, Shining Blade literally works by coordinating with your allies.
It's an ability already in rotation for PvP, and not trying to fit another skill into the rotation.
Knights have to pay the price of a tactic to get something their mirror gets for free, so it shouldn't have to cost us a GCD as well as the slot, one resource is enough.
This should not effect SnB negatively in any way I can think of.
Both builds would then* face the possibility of not having 100% uptime due to blessings being stripped, but think the tradeoff is worth it risk assessment.

As an attempt to provide parry to 2-handed KotBS builds, this feels less than great so far.

*Edit: clarified

The kotbs is overloaded with utility, kinda over the top so there should be some trade offs. Lower dmg and many tools tactic related are some trade offs

ShadowWar wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:16 am I would strongly suggest reworking Coordination tactic by replacing the Sunder with Shining Blade.

This is more thematically incline with the skill name, Shining Blade literally works by coordinating with your allies.
It's an ability already in rotation for PvP, and not trying to fit another skill into the rotation.
Knights have to pay the price of a tactic to get something their mirror gets for free, so it shouldn't have to cost us a GCD as well as the slot, one resource is enough.
This should not effect SnB negatively in any way I can think of.
Both builds now face the possibility of not having 100% uptime due to blessings being stripped, but think the tradeoff is worth it risk assessment.

As an attempt to provide parry to 2-handed KotBS builds, this feels less than great so far.

The fact that Knight has been given a bonus to parry in the form of tactics is a huge advantage and not a disadvantage. This allows him to combine the buff from tactics with vanq/triu/sove or weapon.
74% parry on Knight. Poor Chosen.
A tactic that is assigned to a skill that has no cd is excellent.
By the way, why does Knight ‘Shield rush’ (10% block) stack with vanq/triu/sove bonus and chosen ‘Suppression’ does not?
Knight now beats poor Chosen in every aspect of the game and every spec (the only exception being solo roaming - meaningless in a team-based game).

Alubert wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:02 pmThe fact that Knight has been given a bonus to parry in the form of tactics is a huge advantage and not a disadvantage.

Kotbs 2h lost all parry from WS (2h knights used to stack this). Now has to spend a tactic to get what it previously gained from WS. But whatever fits the destro mind narrative .

Alubert wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:02 pm This allows him to combine the buff from tactics with vanq/triu/sove or weapon.
74% parry on Knight. Poor Chosen.
A tactic that is assigned to a skill that has no cd is excellent.
By the way, why does Knight ‘Shield rush’ (10% block) stack with vanq/triu/sove bonus and chosen ‘Suppression’ does not?
Knight now beats poor Chosen in every aspect of the game and every spec (the only exception being solo roaming - meaningless in a team-based game).

Chosen is the most played tank in the game, yes poor guy that can roam like a God among tanks, is strong in all group settings of the game. There is only 1 des tank that has the rights to complain and Chosen is not it(Hint: BO 2H). IIRC chosen shouldn't even have deamon claw if you want to go by stuff added.

Meanwhile kotbs is an aura bot with no dps, utility- wise he might be a little OP but so boring to play that no sane human being ( after all we play games to be entertained) can stick to it for endgame unless they're forced to sacrifce themselves for the guild/leader and play this glorified aura bot.

Knight in RoR is a bad joke unfortunately as been said many times.

Farrul wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:35 pm

Alubert wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:02 pmThe fact that Knight has been given a bonus to parry in the form of tactics is a huge advantage and not a disadvantage.

Kotbs 2h lost all parry from WS (2h knights used to stack this). Now has to spend a tactic to get what it previously gained from WS. But whatever fits the destro mind narrative .

Alubert wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:02 pm This allows him to combine the buff from tactics with vanq/triu/sove or weapon.
74% parry on Knight. Poor Chosen.
A tactic that is assigned to a skill that has no cd is excellent.
By the way, why does Knight ‘Shield rush’ (10% block) stack with vanq/triu/sove bonus and chosen ‘Suppression’ does not?
Knight now beats poor Chosen in every aspect of the game and every spec (the only exception being solo roaming - meaningless in a team-based game).

Chosen is the most played tank in the game, yes poor guy that can roam like a God among tanks, is strong in all group settings of the game. There is only 1 des tank that has the rights to complain and Chosen is not it(Hint: BO 2H). IIRC chosen shouldn't even have deamon claw if you want to go by stuff added.

Meanwhile kotbs is an aura bot with no dps, utility- wise he might be a little OP but so boring to play that no sane human being ( after all we play games to be entertained) can stick to it for endgame unless they're forced to sacrifce themselves for the guild/leader and play this glorified aura bot.

Knight in RoR is a bad joke unfortunately as been said many times.

1 Just because it has been said many times that Knight is a bad joke does not mean it is true.
2.Top utility tank in the game in snb spec and now additionally in 2h spec.
3.Tank with the highest amount of parry (BG doesn't have 100 hate all the time to use the bonus).
4.As for my state of mind it is neither destro nor order.
I have characters on two sides of the conflict including 80+ Chosen and 80+ Knight and what I can tell you is Chosen is a bad joke vs Knight.
5 I would never use Daemonclaw instead of Rugged. Without parry you then have no tougness.
6. I don't understand why you complain that WS now doesn't give you two components - offensive and defensive. From what you write you want to hit harder. You can still do it but you have to decide whether to be a tank or a beating tank. You want to beat harder then don't expect that you can be tough.
7. Either way, I wouldn't mind if Knight Runefang gave str + tough or ws + tough.
No good Knight would put it on anyway because it has a lot of other better tactics that affect the whole party not like its little brother Chosen.

Nameless wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:38 am The kotbs is overloaded with utility, kinda over the top so there should be some trade offs. Lower dmg and many tools tactic related are some trade offs

None of this is a counter to anything I mentioned, or a justification for the implementation in it's current state. The class already deals with those trade-offs, and nothing changes about that with my proposal.

Tactic Slots are precious. GCDs are similarly important. There is already a HUGE trade-off to take this tactic slot, the drawbacks are too severe, and the solution does not feel good except for Sword and Board, specifically because Shield Rush is already in the normal rotations. Be forced to fit another ability is penalizing 2-handers twice for something that is baseline on their mirror, and costs one OR the other for every other tank (tactic or GCD, not both).

ShadowWar wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:16 am I would strongly suggest reworking Coordination tactic by replacing the Sunder with Shining Blade.

This is more thematically incline with the skill name, Shining Blade literally works by coordinating with your allies.
It's an ability already in rotation for PvP, and not trying to fit another skill into the rotation.
Knights have to pay the price of a tactic to get something their mirror gets for free, so it shouldn't have to cost us a GCD as well as the slot, one resource is enough.
This should not effect SnB negatively in any way I can think of.
Both builds now face the possibility of not having 100% uptime due to blessings being stripped, but think the tradeoff is worth it risk assessment.

As an attempt to provide parry to 2-handed KotBS builds, this feels less than great so far.

I think that seems difficult and not very feasible

Farrul wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:35 pm
Kotbs 2h lost all parry from WS (2h knights used to stack this). Now has to spend a tactic to get what it previously gained from WS. But whatever fits the destro mind narrative .

And in the end kotbs became a tank with most parry of all 2h tanks with pretty much 100% uptime because you can hit sunder whenever you feel like it.
71% (proc+tactic) in bloodlord without channels. Nice joke

nocturnalguest wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:38 am And in the end kotbs became a tank with most parry of all 2h tanks with pretty much 100% uptime because you can hit sunder whenever you feel like it.
71% (proc+tactic) in bloodlord without channels. Nice joke

Coordination is a tactic that buffs an ability(s).
Therefore, according to the normal stacking rules, it should NOT stack with same buffs from other abilities, procs or pots/linis.

The Bloodlord 7pc proc (which I assume you are refering to) or the 2h Crypt weapon with the Reactionary (parry%) proc should NOT stack with coordination.

If they do (and you get 20%+10% parry instead of 20%), then that's a bug and should be reported on the bugtracker. Is that the case?

leftayparxoun wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:13 pm Coordination is a tactic that buffs an ability(s).

It's a tactic that gives a buff when some abilities are used. Technically different, but with precedent for stacking already. Also, changing from sunder to Shining Blade stop the 100% uptime for two-handers, which is a boon to balance IMO. That said, if you think that the tactic shouldn't stack with weapon procs because of balance reasons, I'd like to hear why it's not the case for other classes.