Return of Reckoning

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 4eb8de1ccb&

Ok so there's people joining SC and if the teamcomp isn't good enough in their eyes will AFK or refuse to paarticipate and move around just enough to not get the Quitter debuff.

THAT BEING SAID, maybe we can have additional objectives that make certain classes more useful in SC so this reaction gets minimized? Or maybe we report people who do this. It's easily exploitable to make a new account and just throw games with no one suspecting it's an enemy faction spy.

I understand SC is dominant with flawless premade teamcomps but it's still possible to fight sometimes for renown, my goal is grinding to 80 renown regardless of win/loss in SC and it's messed up when people throw like that just because they don't like the current team composition.

Certain classes clearly get better treatment than others and have far more value in SC than others. Sometimes people literally afk because we don't have a healer class, which can't be said about other classes. It's like you choose a fun class to play and then devs say "Sorry! You chose wrong" if you didn't pick a certain class hundreds of hours deep into your class.


TL;DR POSSIBLE QoL SOLUTIONS:

1. 1 HEALER PER PARTY, HEALER ONLY AFFECTS THEIR OWN PARTY OR #2 BELOW
2. IF MULTIPLE HEALERS, TARGET GETS 50% REDUCED HEALING FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES (Similar to League)
3. ADDITIONAL OBJECTIVES SO UNDERWHELMING CLASSES ARE MORE USEFUL SO PEOPLE DONT CRY AND AFK IN SC
4. IN-GAME REPORT BUTTON FOR PEOPLE WHO GRIEF VIA ANTI-AFK SYSTEM/REFUSE PARTICIPATION
5. LONGER QUEUE TIMES FOR CERTAIN CLASSES IF TOO MANY OF CERTAIN CLASS QUEUE'ING UP

If most scenarios weren't murder boxes but were fun, engaging, had some kind of comeback mechanism and offered people reasonable rewards for participation even if they get slaughtered then this behavior wouldn't be so prevalent.

BUT ... they aren't and have actively been made that way. So you get what we got.

Anyway, I am clearly in favor of #3. Punishing people is how we got here and messing with class/game mechanics e.g. healing changes is just annoying.

Also, while we are at it they should remove barriers, add guards back in to all spawn points and remove surrender since it has trained everyone to try to take advantage of it win or lose.

I'm for that too yeah, at this point anything would be good. Whatever we have right now isn't working and hasn't been working.

I'm struggling to understand 1 & 2. Do you find Healers to be too strong?

Uchoo wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 12:49 am I'm struggling to understand 1 & 2. Do you find Healers to be too strong?

1 healer is fine, I can run anti-heal builds but usually I see people running multiple healers and it completely negates the heal reduction builds. It's like why even bother running that build at that point.

In other games ideally people focus healers down or negate healing but I learned in this game healers are super tanky.

Also I see people ragequit SC just for not having a healer so I assume it's most valued out of all other classes. You don't ever hear "oh man we have no Witch Elf guess we surrender this SC boys good luck on the next one!"

VoidEel wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:21 am
1 healer is fine, I can run anti-heal builds but usually I see people running multiple healers and it completely negates the heal reduction builds. It's like why even bother running that build at that point.

In other games ideally people focus healers down or negate healing but I learned in this game healers are super tanky.

Also I see people ragequit SC just for not having a healer so I assume it's most valued out of all other classes. You don't ever hear "oh man we have no Witch Elf guess we surrender this SC boys good luck on the next one!"

Unless something has changed since i last logged (which i admit was a long time ago) the game is balanced around balanced composition (2-2-2) team massive combat. Healing output is calculated so that when fighting lets say wb vs wb, healers can keep alive (along with tanks ofc) an ally focused by 8 ppl. And the dmg/mitigation/healing received in massive fights is normally many time the health pool of the dead. Asking to change the formula would make the game alot more lethal, healers would fall out of use because "what's the point" and tanks would follow for the same reason, turning the game into a pew-pew fest. That was never the vision of the game.

So,
no to the proposed chances to healing but
definitely in favor
of making the scenarios more versatile and
of a magic way to punish afk-ers, quitters etc

Edit: as for point 5 of OP, it's too punishing. You shouldn't forbid ppl from joining. The scenario outcome is punishment enough

Bring back guards in sc's!

VoidEel wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 11:41 pm https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 4eb8de1ccb&

Ok so there's people joining SC and if the teamcomp isn't good enough in their eyes will AFK or refuse to paarticipate and move around just enough to not get the Quitter debuff.

THAT BEING SAID, maybe we can have additional objectives that make certain classes more useful in SC so this reaction gets minimized? Or maybe we report people who do this. It's easily exploitable to make a new account and just throw games with no one suspecting it's an enemy faction spy.

In a normal SC there are no useless classes, only useless players (see screenshot), no patch can fix them. You already can report people and things will be looked at. The rest of this part is buls..t! Can confirm, the guy in your example is no spy or throwing for order, just salty.

VoidEel wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 11:41 pm https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 4eb8de1ccb&

I understand SC is dominant with flawless premade teamcomps but it's still possible to fight sometimes for renown, my goal is grinding to 80 renown regardless of win/loss in SC and it's messed up when people throw like that just because they don't like the current team composition.

Yes ... and no! People should always try if something goes, most premades are not that hard if you handle them right, but some are and will destroy even good compositions, it's pointless to try, so people should just leave and maybe make room for better players.

VoidEel wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 11:41 pm https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 4eb8de1ccb&

Certain classes clearly get better treatment than others and have far more value in SC than others. Sometimes people literally afk because we don't have a healer class, which can't be said about other classes. It's like you choose a fun class to play and then devs say "Sorry! You chose wrong" if you didn't pick a certain class hundreds of hours deep into your class.

As stated above, there are no useless classes in a normal sc, but yes, some classes have more values then others, a good group of tanks can replace dps to some amount, good dps with good healers will be able to kill something etc.! Running without healers into a meat grinder...

VoidEel wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2024 11:41 pm https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 4eb8de1ccb&

TL;DR POSSIBLE QoL SOLUTIONS:

1. 1 HEALER PER PARTY, HEALER ONLY AFFECTS THEIR OWN PARTY OR #2 BELOW
2. IF MULTIPLE HEALERS, TARGET GETS 50% REDUCED HEALING FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES (Similar to League)
3. ADDITIONAL OBJECTIVES SO UNDERWHELMING CLASSES ARE MORE USEFUL SO PEOPLE DONT CRY AND AFK IN SC
4. IN-GAME REPORT BUTTON FOR PEOPLE WHO GRIEF VIA ANTI-AFK SYSTEM/REFUSE PARTICIPATION
5. LONGER QUEUE TIMES FOR CERTAIN CLASSES IF TOO MANY OF CERTAIN CLASS QUEUE'ING UP

All together horrible ideas:

1. & 2. please look at the killboard, look up sc and see there will be a lot of sc with 4+ healers and 20-30 kills (as long as people not afking until surrender). Healers can be outplayed.

3. No amount of objectives would fix peoples mentality (see screenshort)

4. You already can report people

5. Worst of all, to much issues here, just use the ping meatball in your head. Would you like not to have a sc pop because there are already two we in que...?

VoidEel wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:21 am

Uchoo wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 12:49 am I'm struggling to understand 1 & 2. Do you find Healers to be too strong?

1 healer is fine, I can run anti-heal builds but usually I see people running multiple healers and it completely negates the heal reduction builds. It's like why even bother running that build at that point.

In other games ideally people focus healers down or negate healing but I learned in this game healers are super tanky.

Also I see people ragequit SC just for not having a healer so I assume it's most valued out of all other classes. You don't ever hear "oh man we have no Witch Elf guess we surrender this SC boys good luck on the next one!"

Every post shows you have a very limited point of view. This game is not designed around "You are the chosen one and can kill the whole enemy party". No matter if you are the best player (which i doubt at this point), you won't do **** alone vs other groups. Anti heal builds are to reduce the amount of healing, simple math for you:

Healer one heals 2k damage
Healer two heals 2k damage

Amount of healing = 4k

reduce Healer one's healing by 50%

Amount of healing = 3k

less damage to kill a target, if you are fancy enough, put healdebuff on both etc...

WE is a class, healers is an archetype, no need for WE as long as there are choppers, marauders, squig etc. nobody would complay "Oh no, no zealots, only shamans...".

Tanks are equal critical, but with some compositions of classes you can outplay the enemy without both (very good at kiting etc)

Missing dps in fact is not the biggest issue because you at least have some kind of sustain. You can survive and try at least try, but vs proper enemys, you won't get far. Bad dps can be a factor, to much examples here to write them down, but I'm sure with your big experiance in SC people already mentioned this your presence.

Personaly I would rather play with bad healers and tanks but good dps.

Tankyness of healers is the only point people could discuss in this thread, rest is pure ego driven ranting.

Lately many scens start with low numbers of players (like at the posted pics). While 3v3 or 5v5 could be very fun many times you got 4v5 and with such low numbers that +1 person is essential. And since the matchmaker put me at huge disadvantage from the start i understand the refusal to ented esp considering no save spots at most scens