Return of Reckoning

MMORPGs always had Archetypes. In Classic games it was Tanks, Healers, Damage Dealers and Supporters.
Most of those had sub types like melee / range bow or magic / high or low armor / 1 or 2 hand weapon / elemental fire, nature, chaos… and so on.
But the basic formula was mostly this:
DPS does dmg and kills stuff.
Tank tanks and protects.
Healers heal and resurrect.

There are a few games that let you switch your role as you please whenever it fits. But in those games, it is mostly fair and square. Late stage AoR and RoR took another route. A not so fair and square route. Sure, everybody wants to be the Hero. The Main Charakter. But here we are today.
Tanks want to be DPS. BUT they still want to be TANK
Healers want to be DPS. BUT they still want to HEAL
DPS want to be DPS. BUT You made Tanks and Healers almost unkillable.

In the original Game it started with the basics: Armor type and numbers, value of resistances and Toughness.
- WH/WE had the lowest base defense and armor. They were made to be assassins. Highest risk highest reward. No real AOE dmg. All channeled into high hitting a single chosen target that would be dead if it’s teammates would not intervene instantly.
- BW/Sorc had the highest magic type dmg on single target and strong AOE mid to low range specs.
But they would demand to be played in combination with a healer to not blow themselves up.
- SW/SH( wl/mara criss cross mirror hell) SW/SH: Strong range dmg with kiting in mind. Fragile when caught.
-Wl/mara mid defense mid dmg. A little bit tanky wanky Bruiser type stuff.
Then Slayer and Choppa got into the game. They would demand to be played with Healer and Tank since their mechanic made their dmg ramp up and their defense shrink at the same time to a peak where they turned into the hardest hitting melee aoe class of glass.

Balance on life was like a monthly Bingo game. Every now and then they changed the flavor of the month balance, where they Buffed or Nerfed classes. Resulting in another class to be the new alpha predator of the lakes.
BUT the MAIN CLASS IDENTITY was always the SAME.
DPS do dmg, Healers heal and Tanks protect. The only exception where Shamans kiting whole Warbands from Reikland to the Maw and dual wielding DOKs stacking parry so high that they could tank 55++ war camp melee guards (who remembers Murkels and Erdknuffel from Drakenwald will know what I am talking about)

But this is 2025 RoR. Balance changes on top of balance changes on top of balance changes.
Why even Play DPS classes anymore? DPS Tanks and DPS Healers straight out defeat any pure DPS class right now in 1 v 1 situations. Lately WP 2H aoe build even out damages Engi or slayer aoe builds. Pew Pew Laser beam classes are more effective on killing roaming groups then actual range dps classes.

Long story short. The situation for most DPS classes right now is bottom floor.
The Classes with all the buffs/debuffs/absorbs/heals got their dps buffed way to much.

DPS being bottom floor is fine in a pvp game.

Good DPS with newbie/bad tank-healer gonna struggle a lot because game design is built around teamplay. Good tank-healer makes DPS life a lot easier and it should remain that way imo.

siglade wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2025 4:59 pm DPS being bottom floor is fine in a pvp game.

Good DPS with newbie/bad tank-healer gonna struggle a lot because game design is built around teamplay. Good tank-healer makes DPS life a lot easier and it should remain that way imo.

No it is not.

A dps should be able to kill a healer in dps spec faster then the dps healer the dps class.
A Tank should not be able to dps down a dps class without healer backup faster then the dps class can kill him.

A single 2H Chosen or knight facing a single target melee dps should be like a Can of Beans facing an Can opener.
A Healer on dps build should not be able to put a single absorb or heal on anything. You want them to be dps. Then they should be 100%pure dps and not a DPS class with absolute self sustain.

You talk about team play. Yet those Tank/Healer DPS builds step out of line and make them dominate in Solo situations.
Then pure DPS classes should get Tank or healer build by your logic. So they can be as flexible in their role too.
Or even better. When build for DPS Tank/Healer, make all their defence bobble and heals have the additional condition ''Bee in 100 feet range of a group mate'' to be usable. So they can be pure DPS when they are not working in your so called ''Teamplay'' environment.

I just didn't want to talk about hybrid at all, you kinda resumed this part well with how they want more while keeping their own stuff.

ps: you should avoid 1v1 in thread. None care about it

This is 1v1 problem. Non dps classes (beside dok/wp) are rarely used for 6 man premades and their dps is at best secondary. Personally i also dont like each class to do equally all game modes and fill dps role on term with pure dps classes

Gunlinger wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2025 5:37 pm

A dps should be able to kill a healer in dps spec faster then the dps healer the dps class.
A Tank should not be able to dps down a dps class without healer backup faster then the dps class can kill him.

This is the bit you've gotten wrong.

In rock -> paper -> scissors balance, tanks are supposed to beat DPS. DPS are supposed to kill healers, and healers supposed to kill tanks.

Now, im not saying that RoR has that level of balance working properly (it doesnt) but when you're talking about balance between roles, arguing that DPS should be able to kill everything is wrong. Thats not balance.


On the hybrid end of things, sure, some classes are gonna cause you problems. It sucks getting kited to death by a DPS healer. It sucks going up against a DPS specced tank and getting smashed coz they can still mitigate and regen through most of your damage. We've all been there.

Just remember that those hybrids that you're getting destroyed by still get destroyed themselves by a bunch of classes. My shaman, supposedly one of the most OP classes in DPS spec, still regularly gets his ass kicked by white lions, witch hunters and DPS AMs. White lions have the mobility and damage to prevent me kiting. WHs have the burst. DPS AMs can cleanse most of my DoTs, which is a big portion of my damage (but i can't cleanse them). And of course WLs, WHs and AMs are the majority of what you come across when you're roaming solo or small scale....

anstalt wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2025 9:24 pm

Gunlinger wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2025 5:37 pm

A dps should be able to kill a healer in dps spec faster then the dps healer the dps class.
A Tank should not be able to dps down a dps class without healer backup faster then the dps class can kill him.

This is the bit you've gotten wrong.

In rock -> paper -> scissors balance, tanks are supposed to beat DPS. DPS are supposed to kill healers, and healers supposed to kill tanks.

Now, im not saying that RoR has that level of balance working properly (it doesnt) but when you're talking about balance between roles, arguing that DPS should be able to kill everything is wrong. Thats not balance.

Dps should do dmg
Tanks should protect
Healers should heal

There are melee classes. Range classes. Swods, Axes, Bows, Guns, Staffs.
You want do to melee dmg? Pick a melee dps. You want range dmg? Pick a range shooter or caster.

To say that a Healer should be supposed to kill Tanks is the most ridicules claim. Are we going the Warcraft route now? Are healing Spells now deal Holy dmg to undead enemies?



I am not saying that DPS should kill everything. That was changed long ago on life War already, when they generalized Gear sets of all Dps Classes and took away the class specific Stats. Each dps set used to have stats that were exactly placed to respect their class and role dependent on their Armor type and if they had to spec into one single stat like Int or into multiple like Strg, Bal and WS on top.

But DPS should kill DPS.
Casters and ultra high armor pen melee should kill Tanks.
Healers should be the ones that prevent those Tanks from being killed with little effort because of the tanks high HP pools and mitigation.
Tanks should be the ones that prevent the Dps from killing Healers by intervention of the Dps reaching the Healer and by shielding the Healer.

Killing healers as DPS was almost impossible because of 100% uptime detaunt and self heal outmatching dps even wile under the effect of heal debuff.
But now they just place All their Dots prior to the detaunt and still heal themself without those dots breaking the detaunts.
Tanks simply spam attacks that ignore armor by magic type or undefendable attacks to kill soft armor DPS classes. And those DPS classes hit them with their highest hitting abilities mitigated down to 80 - 200 dmg into an HP pool of 10K while those Tanks hit them for 800 - 1000 per spamable hit. AND THEY HAVE HIGH REGGEN and High DEFENCE on top. Non magic/ele/corp melee dps can not even defend against the defendable Tank hits anymore, since Parry got changed from WS to INI.

Someone said it is about team play and blah blah blah... How can you explain solo AMs/shamans/chosen/BGs roaming and being unkillable by every other class? Atomic bomb as OP said. You need to have a 6 man party to kill one of those.

And this is how dps reacted - we have heavily defensive specs dominating today. Tanky regen dps.

1v1 problem.

Next?

God-mode problem. 1v1 is different.