Return of Reckoning

In this thread I will briefly discuss necessary changes to improve the viability of 2h Blackguards. I strongly believe that the following propositions would truly make the glaive wielding Blackguard a force to be reckoned with (pun intended).

1. The most obvious and needed change is to acquire a proper mirror to Cave-In. This can be done by swapping Blade of Ruin and Enraged Beating in the Malice tree. Then, replacing the BoR requirements of block or parry to "Requires Great Weapon", adding a 3 second knockdown and increasing the cooldown to 20 seconds.

2. The second needed change is to swap Wave of Scorn and Elite Training to properly mirror Earthshatter and Oathstone. Both WoS and ET are noticeably weaker than their counterparts and would need to be buffed accordingly.

3. Another great change would be the introduction of the Great Weapon Mastery tactic. It is well indoctrinated in Warhammer lore that Blackguards are highly trained pole weapon experts. This would be in-line with the two Great Weapon Mastery tactics available to the IB and SM. The change can be done by replacing Monstrous Ruin with Great Weapon Mastery and putting it up to the 13th point, Hastened Doom to 7 and Filled with Fury to 3.

4. My final balance change would be to mirror the armor penetration affect of Rune-Etched Axe to Crimson Death. Although, I would propose a weaker affect of 30 hate = 15% armor ignore, 60 hate = 45% armor ignore and 90 hate = 60% armor ignore.

This concludes my four balance proposals that would certainly improve the viability and play style of the 2h Blackguard.

i dont think WoS and elite training need to be swapped simply because ET not as strong as oathstone

neither nore do i think enraged beating and blade of ruin needs to be swapped because first and formost you no matter what as 2h bg your going to want to get hastened doom

at its core 2h bg need one thing mainly; a kd and that can be done via either making blade of ruin into a cave in mirror or making spiteful slam require parry insted of block


50% aa haste, highest wounds debuff in the game and you can apply in an aoe , un detauntable, crit on spend hate, durability with good base willpower + buff and durability with shield of rage and bolstering anger, anti crit ability, non tactic needing super punt

BG has the potential to be an extremely strong 2h tank, all they need is a kd

I agree on most points, but I would contend with the following:

1. Blackguards need a mirror to Guarded Attack. The armor buff is incredibly strong at all points in the game, but especially early.

2. This might be a little complex, but instead of the armor ignore on Crimson Death, I think that Crimson Death or the new Cave-In ability should give the Blackguard passive armor penetration in the following criteria:

25 Hate: 10% Armor Penetration
50 Hate: 20% Armor Penetration
75 Hate: 30% Armor Penetration
100 Hate: 40% Armor Penetration

Finally I think that Anger Drives me should be swapped with Feeding on Pain to mirror other 7pt avoidance tactics and to make it more accessible to players who build primarily into other trees.

Coryphaus wrote:i dont think WoS and elite training need to be swapped simply because ET not as strong as oathstone

neither nore do i think enraged beating and blade of ruin needs to be swapped because first and formost you no matter what as 2h bg your going to want to get hastened doom

at its core 2h bg need one thing mainly; a kd and that can be done via either making blade of ruin into a cave in mirror or making spiteful slam require parry insted of block


50% aa haste, highest wounds debuff in the game and you can apply in an aoe , un detauntable, crit on spend hate, durability with good base willpower + buff and durability with shield of rage and bolstering anger, anti crit ability, non tactic needing super punt

BG has the potential to be an extremely strong 2h tank, all they need is a kd

If Blade of Ruin was a knockdown like Cave-In as proposed, that is what you want first and foremost, mirroring it to every other tank knockdown (9pt) only makes sense.

The point of swapping Elite Training and Wave of Scorn is so that WoS is accessible with a 2H build like Earthshatter is.

Uchoo wrote:
1. Blackguards need a mirror to Guarded Attack. The armor buff is incredibly strong at all points in the game, but especially early.

BG's do have one: force of fury, and its better than guarded attack b/c crit reduction

Coryphaus wrote:

Uchoo wrote:
1. Blackguards need a mirror to Guarded Attack. The armor buff is incredibly strong at all points in the game, but especially early.

BG's do have one: force of fury, and its better than guarded attack b/c crit reduction

No it's not because it's 9 points into the tank tree and doesn't provide the buff to your Dark Protector. Do you think Choppas in Tier 1 and 2 would like to run around with a perma armor buff like Slayers currently do?

Uchoo wrote:

Coryphaus wrote:

Uchoo wrote:
1. Blackguards need a mirror to Guarded Attack. The armor buff is incredibly strong at all points in the game, but especially early.

BG's do have one: force of fury, and its better than guarded attack b/c crit reduction

No it's not because it's 9 points into the tank tree and doesn't provide the buff to your Dark Protector.

and WoS is no where near as good as earth shatter and id rather have a 4 attack parry for those o **** moments

Thier are certian things that you cant get if you go 2h that is to be expected just like its not necessary for bg to have guarded attack mirror espically when you consider that you have an absorb shield that cds quickly and absorbs a good chuck of dmg since you need to atleast get bolstering anger from anguish tree

bgs are ment to be squisher than ibs their ment to be more offensive, and have weaker buffs/debuffs cause their mechanic that builds faster

Coryphaus wrote:i dont think WoS and elite training need to be swapped simply because ET not as strong as oathstone

I stated that ET would need to be improved if my suggestion was implemented. Not having an Earthshatter mirror is almost as absurd as not having the KD. The snare utility that a WoS could provide to Malice would be extremely beneficial.

Coryphaus wrote:neither nore do i think enraged beating and blade of ruin needs to be swapped because first and formost you no matter what as 2h bg your going to want to get hastened doom

I don't see a better way to have the 9 point KD mirror without the swap. You would still get Hastened Doom with my suggestion. It'd be even lower in the tree at 7 points.

Coryphaus wrote:at its core 2h bg need one thing mainly; a kd and that can be done via either making blade of ruin into a cave in mirror or making spiteful slam require parry insted of block

I agree. Although, having a proper mirror to Earthshatter is crucial.

Okay so you know that IB's have a damage absorb on the exact same cooldown in their build, right? And it applies to their oath friend? Albeit, magic damage only. lol.

Wave of Scorn is nowhere near as good as Earthshatter, because Earthshatter damage scales with Grudge, but the point is that you can have the utility of a 40% aoe slow in your 2H build.

I would highly recommend that go you play an Ironbreaker for awhile lol.

At the end of the day, Ironbreakers could do half of the damage that they currently do with a 2H and still have guaranteed spots in groups due to their great utility.

Coryphaus wrote:
stuff.

I feel like you are completely underestimating the value of giving another target the benefit of your buffs, many of the Blackguard buffs do NOTHING for their Dark Protectee (Oath Friend). What if Shield of Rage gave a a shield to your buddy too?