Return of Reckoning

bloodi wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:What are you people so confused about? Contribution hasn't changed.

I think its the fact that you keep tying obtaining gear to a system like that what confuses people the most.

Live started like this and changed it because how horrible it is to rely on rng to get it, so you going back to it confuses the hell out of us.

"Live started like this and changed it" - How? As I recall, we were still rolling on bags right up til the end.

"Going back to it" - but we've been doing contribution+RNG roll since keeps started in T2?

I wish that obtaining high tier gear wasnt tied to basically pure RNG

I forsee myself being stuck to basically SC sets becuase of how **** my luck is

wargrimnir wrote:"Live started like this and changed it" - How? As I recall, we were still rolling on bags right up til the end.

Well, for starters they put tokens in every bag and gave tokens for locks because rng were screwing people up, specially because back then fortress lords had auras that were simple gear checks, if you didnt have full annihilator or at least the wards unlocked, it would do 100% more damage to you with his aura, simply making you unable to stand anywhere near it.

When your only chance to get loot is from a gold bag, that may or may not give you the piece you want, rng gets real bad, i remember on live getting 3 anni helmets before my chest piece, making me do stupid **** like having to stand behind walls in the fortress to avoid the aura that would kill me.

Mind you than on live, guilds got gold bags in the mail due to the ability to cliam keeps and the amount of bags dropped scaled with the people in the zone, unlike here where it caps at 24 even if there is 200 people rolling in it.

So overall, when you add up that we get no conq gloves/boots, what we have here is a system like the oldest one on live but with a lot less chances to get anything and a lot more RNG.

wargrimnir wrote:"Going back to it" - but we've been doing contribution+RNG roll since keeps started in T2?

Even if it was talking about the first Live system, you also did a similar implementation with Ruin gear on pqs and the same arguments came up, we talkedea bout how unfun was to rely on RNG to get the gear, specially when we could get dupes and so on, people called us entitled and wanting free stuff but after a while, the tokens in bags were implemented which is a system that most people would like for conq too, a way to circunvement RNG in the bags with a token system.

I understand that the idea is to give an incentive for people to keep playing but when there is nothing more to the system than "hey grind and get lucky" people dont find it interesting at all, its just luck and repetition, its not hard, is just itme consuming and frustrating due to RNG.

Well lets be clear .

The roll system haven't changed. It has just been displaced.

On my demand if you wonder why (i'll explain why further).

The random part is quite important because of technical reasons we are actually completely unable to solve. We dont have a real contribution system and neither did mythic, would require a strong algorithm to track things like damage mitigated and useful healing dealt in order to prevent it being gamed. Altering the random roll now would just put aoe dps even further out in front, its not great but its the best that we can use.

But this doesn't explain why i asked to move the roll on lock and not on keep def/atk.

According now, both faction will roll depending -for at least a small portion- his involvment, i think this will improve a bit some little issues.

- Keep is an objective, and not a purpose in the campain. I've never understood WHY those who are working hard in the lake wouldn't be rewarded too.
- The frustration against keep crash won't be linked rightly or wrongly with loots.
- None will have to X-Realm anymore to hope having a bag. Involve in your faction and try your best to lock to earn the biggest amount of bags. Go on the most populated faction, and just divide chances for everyone.

Now, the update is quite fresh and some adjustments will be needed and done in the limit of our abilities. FYI, i suggested another way to reward players on the lock, but it needs a lot of work to do it.

I hope this answer is clear, understood, and none here will complain about.

Could we increase the bags that drop for each zone lock though?(I had that discussion with a Dev last year) For example :
4 Gold bags
6 Purple bags
8 Blue bags
16 Greens
20 Whites
So...more winners, and the increase of the rewards will motivate people to stay in their function and fight again.
Opt out would help with RNG too as some people might not want Gold or Purple bags anymore in the future.

wargrimnir wrote:What are you people so confused about? Contribution hasn't changed.
Kills. Healing. BO's (cap and def). Resources. Damage on the Keep Lord.
You can earn up to 500 contribution.
You random roll 1-1000. Get lucky.

How long have we had zone kills contribute to bag score significantly? This thread reminded me of a really nice run our group had in BC (this was Jan 15) and how surprised I was to see our group high up on the contributors list even though we only played for kills.

Do you think it would be possible to add a debug message with a breakdown of how much contribution I got for which activity? This would clear up a lot of confusion about how contribution works.

If we tone down the randomness aspect, clarify how playing for the objectives helps with contribution and scale the number of bags with the number of participants better I think we can improve quality of ORvR for everyone.

It shouldn't be the norm to have to play in the off hours to have an acceptable chance of getting bag loot. More people will be encouraged to participate and do so in an "objective minded" way if the system is less random and the path to high contribution is made clear.

I don't think I'm breaking any new ground here but it is pretty straightforward that the devs wanted to keep interest in the game by providing new gear and wep sets. They don't have the resources to keep pumping out new content necessary to feed our voracious appetite so they put up the current rate for gear at a pretty high threshold. This should tell us that it will be a long while before we see forts or cities. I got 8 medallions from close to 20 hours of game time over the weekend. I actually view this as being great for the game. This lower cost of anni/merc should make the old meta easy to get to. We will all be on equal footing for a good while. It will be a very long time before we see anyone sporting full conq or new sc wep or gear. Keeping it rng keeps the 20 hour a day guys from grinding their way to domination. I'm sure at some point they will dial back on the rates but they have to start high to see how things shake out.

Caffeine wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:What are you people so confused about? Contribution hasn't changed.
Kills. Healing. BO's (cap and def). Resources. Damage on the Keep Lord.
You can earn up to 500 contribution.
You random roll 1-1000. Get lucky.

How long have we had zone kills contribute to bag score significantly? This thread reminded me of a really nice run our group had in BC (this was Jan 15) and how surprised I was to see our group high up on the contributors list even though we only played for kills.

Do you think it would be possible to add a debug message with a breakdown of how much contribution I got for which activity? This would clear up a lot of confusion about how contribution works.

If we tone down the randomness aspect, clarify how playing for the objectives helps with contribution and scale the number of bags with the number of participants better I think we can improve quality of ORvR for everyone.

It shouldn't be the norm to have to play in the off hours to have an acceptable chance of getting bag loot. More people will be encouraged to participate and do so in an "objective minded" way if the system is less random and the path to high contribution is made clear.

Considering contribution is comparative, there's not much useful info we would be able to provide. It would have to do the comparison of all other players in the zone to tell you what rank you're currently sitting in, and update occasionally? Even so, everyone would be moving up and down in that list until the zone finally flips. The more you do, the more contribution you earn.

If you really want people gaming the system, releasing the specific details for every point of contribution would really only lead to them moving along the most optimal path to loot. So, we're not doing that either.

wargrimnir wrote:Kills. Healing. BO's (cap and def). Resources. Damage on the Keep Lord.

In this order ?
Another question, is it a group/wb contribution, or only self ?