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Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:01 pm
by Absinth
Avernus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:53 am
IVendettaI wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:28 am
Ok with a little thought I understood "punt" hahahaha
If BO and SM ever have single punt, it would be unfair for other tanks because BO and SM have aoe punt, so no I think it's a bad idea
You can have a tactic to modify AoE punt into ST long-distance punt. Btw BG does have both aoe punt and st punt...
if by aoe punt you mean the m2 morale, know that its quite useless in most cases and is not played very much. It's 360 punt that throws people 30 feet away and its only good usecase is when you have a big blob of few warbands and you want to break their formation but even then BO are better due to not needing m2 for it.
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:27 pm
by Detangler
Avernus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:51 am
Detangler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:07 am
IVendettaI wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:28 am
Ok with a little thought I understood "punt" hahahaha
If BO and SM ever have single punt, it would be unfair for other tanks because BO and SM have aoe punt, so no I think it's a bad idea
Shield SM has a good distance single target punt already, but not BO....
He does. Wanna have something like that? (Shield only, works from parry though, just in case you prepared to spam your Cant Hit Me). At the price of, for example, orc wounds tactic or orc crit power tactic? Or maybe ST cooldowns? Or totally balanced You Wot? I mean, if you want something, you should give something in return, yes?
What? Redirected Force works from block and is an ability - you don't use one of your precious 4 tactics for it. Blorc should have a similar punt from shield spec, honestly. Shield spec is lacking in the utility that other tanks have. Don't start bringing tactics comparisons when we are talking about punts, because we could play that game for a few pages here and get no where. Yes, some tanks have tactic options that others don't. There are pros and cons to each.
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:02 pm
by Avernus
Absinth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:01 pm
if by aoe punt you mean the m2 morale, know that its quite useless in most cases and is not played very much. It's 360 punt that throws people 30 feet away and its only good usecase is when you have a big blob of few warbands and you want to break their formation but even then BO are better due to not needing m2 for it.
Yes, i know. Still, its good to have both options available when you are playing Tor Anrock (or something similar).
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:06 pm
by Avernus
Detangler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:27 pm
What? Redirected Force works from block and is an ability - you don't use one of your precious 4 tactics for it. Blorc should have a similar punt from shield spec, honestly. Shield spec is lacking in the utility that other tanks have. Don't start bringing tactics comparisons when we are talking about punts, because we could play that game for a few pages here and get no where. Yes, some tanks have tactic options that others don't. There are pros and cons to each.
Thats why i said that BO version should not work from block, since shield BO has Cant Hit Me to instablock anything (well, almost anything...).
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:41 pm
by Culexus
Interesting idea for Da Biggest! I would probably go tough, ini, ws, str though as these buffs/debuffs are more useful imo and str debuff is already covered by big swing.
Disagree with the change to Gork Smash! 20% crit on best plan is better than a 5% crit on no plan. Losing 5% crit on the best plan isn't worth it.
Waaagh! should just be totally reworked.
I've copied a post I made in another thread below.
My personal wishlist for BO change is:
WAAAAGH! - Just replace this with Chop Fasta. Give the Choppa a dps ability in its place. Buff duration of WW for fairness.
You Got Nuffin' - Increase healing to 600.
Rock Ard' - Increase shield to 825 to match SM.
Big Brawlin (Tactic) - 40% snare. Remove pointless CD increase.
Right in Da Jibblies - Turn into a single target punt.
Mor' Hardcore (Tactic) - Longer range single target and aoe punt.
Da Toughest! - Procs on being hit. It is in the tank tree after all.
We'z Bigger - 20% Physical damage reduction for party for 20sec with a 20sec cooldown (10sec/30sec if too op). Matches the new WAAAAGH! and makes you have to choose which tree to spec into as both skills are now useful, giving the player more choice. Provides a counter to rampage destro needs. #justshatterbro
Ya Missed me - ws reduction to replace the loss of it from Right in Da Jibblies.
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:47 pm
by Evilspinnre
Detangler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:27 pm
Shield spec is lacking in the utility that other tanks have.
I'd argue shield blork is underrated and brings a lot to the table. Stat steal, self morale pump, cd increaser, corp debuff for mdps, aoe absorb, build time increaser + aoe slow, and multiple useful debuffs. Personally think an RvR wb should always have 2, same as number of BG's.
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:01 pm
by Bozzax
It is the weakest tank by amile after torq took a disliking to the class
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:03 pm
by Detangler
Avernus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:06 pm
Detangler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:27 pm
What? Redirected Force works from block and is an ability - you don't use one of your precious 4 tactics for it. Blorc should have a similar punt from shield spec, honestly. Shield spec is lacking in the utility that other tanks have. Don't start bringing tactics comparisons when we are talking about punts, because we could play that game for a few pages here and get no where. Yes, some tanks have tactic options that others don't. There are pros and cons to each.
Thats why i said that BO version should not work from block, since shield BO has Cant Hit Me to instablock anything (well, almost anything...).
You're advocating for giving 2H BO a medium to long distance single target punt, then. Not sure you're thinking this through. Its quite easy to pull off SM after-block punts without a channel block ability as you should be in guard range blocking attacks at all times.
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:08 pm
by Detangler
Evilspinnre wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:47 pm
Detangler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:27 pm
Shield spec is lacking in the utility that other tanks have.
I'd argue shield blork is underrated and brings a lot to the table. Stat steal, self morale pump, cd increaser, corp debuff for mdps, aoe absorb, build time increaser + aoe slow, and multiple useful debuffs. Personally think an RvR wb should always have 2, same as number of BG's.
A good list, except:
2h can use stat steal
2h can use CD increaser.
2h can use AoE absorb. (pretty standard for 2H spec)
2h can use aoe build time increaser and aoe slow. (A feasible option for wb 2H spec)
I still think Waaaagh is pretty sub par. Debuffing corp damage for your range dps and a couple abilities for mSH in a melee-meta game isn't exactly huge when your other 4 Chosens are going to run resists and constantly debuff all resists for 1/3 the value.
Re: Black Ork Adjustment
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:19 pm
by IVendettaI
Culexus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:41 pm
Interesting idea for Da Biggest! I would probably go tough, ini, ws, str though as these buffs/debuffs are more useful imo and str debuff is already covered by big swing.
Disagree with the change to Gork Smash! 20% crit on best plan is better than a 5% crit on no plan. Losing 5% crit on the best plan isn't worth it.
Waaagh! should just be totally reworked.
I've copied a post I made in another thread below.
My personal wishlist for BO change is:
WAAAAGH! - Just replace this with Chop Fasta. Give the Choppa a dps ability in its place. Buff duration of WW for fairness.
You Got Nuffin' - Increase healing to 600.
Rock Ard' - Increase shield to 825 to match SM.
Big Brawlin (Tactic) - 40% snare. Remove pointless CD increase.
Right in Da Jibblies - Turn into a single target punt.
Mor' Hardcore (Tactic) - Longer range single target and aoe punt.
Da Toughest! - Procs on being hit. It is in the tank tree after all.
We'z Bigger - 20% Physical damage reduction for party for 20sec with a 20sec cooldown (10sec/30sec if too op). Matches the new WAAAAGH! and makes you have to choose which tree to spec into as both skills are now useful, giving the player more choice. Provides a counter to rampage destro needs. #justshatterbro
Ya Missed me - ws reduction to replace the loss of it from Right in Da Jibblies.
I don't want a change for WAAAAAAAGH! because it's the only spell with corporeal damages and BO can use it with shield. But if you talk about potential change of the augment tactic, it's a good idea to turn it into a Chop fasta like instead Choppa (But i prefer Chop fasta hahahaha)
For the rest I think it's a good idea