Penril wrote:Would Mighty Soul be more desirable if we added an Elemental debuff to, say, Unbalancing Attack? Value would be the same as Shaman's Scuse me!.
Order lacks a decent Ele debuff, specially now that SM's Heaven's Blade no longer stacks with KotBS aura. This would be a nice debuff to have for groups based on BWs and DPS RP (i know, i know...).
What else would you do to Glory/Mighty Soul if this is not enough? Tell me.
Maybe for dps kobs ?
but its a tactic slot that we definitely wouldn't want to give up, plus unbalancing attack is generally considered weak as you're fighting destro with infinite ap on tanks / dps
Maybe usable if it was aoe for warbands though depending on how much it debuffs
If you wanted to buff glory, the best thing you could do is make Heaven's Fury unbreakable ?
Re: [KOTBS] Glory Tree
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:47 pm
by Penril
What's wrong with Heaven's Fury?
Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:50 pm
by Pacso
Penril wrote:Would Mighty Soul be more desirable if we added an Elemental debuff to, say, Unbalancing Attack? Value would be the same as Shaman's Scuse me!.
Order lacks a decent Ele debuff, specially now that SM's Heaven's Blade no longer stacks with KotBS aura. This would be a nice debuff to have for groups based on BWs and DPS RP (i know, i know...).
What else would you do to Glory/Mighty Soul if this is not enough? Tell me.
If the healing component annoys the ppl so much, change the tactic to a morale pump one. (Anytime you block or disrupt or parry or dodge* an attack while FM is active you gain X morale points - tactic cannot trigger more than once every X seconds.)
*pick one
Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:10 pm
by Toldavf
Arconnn wrote:
Penril wrote:Would Mighty Soul be more desirable if we added an Elemental debuff to, say, Unbalancing Attack? Value would be the same as Shaman's Scuse me!.
Order lacks a decent Ele debuff, specially now that SM's Heaven's Blade no longer stacks with KotBS aura. This would be a nice debuff to have for groups based on BWs and DPS RP (i know, i know...).
What else would you do to Glory/Mighty Soul if this is not enough? Tell me.
Maybe for dps kobs ?
but its a tactic slot that we definitely wouldn't want to give up, plus unbalancing attack is generally considered weak as you're fighting destro with infinite ap on tanks / dps
Maybe usable if it was aoe for warbands though depending on how much it debuffs
If you wanted to buff glory, the best thing you could do is make Heaven's Fury unbreakable ?
A stun that is unbreakable is called a knock down.
While aoe knock downs do exist, I think they are in sufficient numbers on both sides and the environment doesn't need flooding with them.
Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 pm
by Coma
Toldavf wrote:
Arconnn wrote:
Penril wrote:Would Mighty Soul be more desirable if we added an Elemental debuff to, say, Unbalancing Attack? Value would be the same as Shaman's Scuse me!.
Order lacks a decent Ele debuff, specially now that SM's Heaven's Blade no longer stacks with KotBS aura. This would be a nice debuff to have for groups based on BWs and DPS RP (i know, i know...).
What else would you do to Glory/Mighty Soul if this is not enough? Tell me.
Maybe for dps kobs ?
but its a tactic slot that we definitely wouldn't want to give up, plus unbalancing attack is generally considered weak as you're fighting destro with infinite ap on tanks / dps
Maybe usable if it was aoe for warbands though depending on how much it debuffs
If you wanted to buff glory, the best thing you could do is make Heaven's Fury unbreakable ?
A stun that is unbreakable is called a knock down.
actualy STUN (as in complete disable that does not brack on damage) were present in the game originally... and were later removed... also note that there is a major difference between stun and KD... kd can not be broken by CC break while stun can (at least as it was like this originally).
also note that orignally Quake (the conunterpart of heaven fury) was an AoE KD and was changed to a stagger to mirror heaven fury in the patch that aimed to reduced discrepancy between mirrors... also heaven fury was orignally a 10 (or was it 15?) sec stagger that was later reduced to 5...
heaven fury is a nice ability that have it's use in small scale where AoE is not king and is easier to coordinate... in massive combat it is just an AoE damage that gives our free immunity ^^'
While aoe knock downs do exist, I think they are in sufficient numbers on both sides and the environment doesn't need flooding with them.
I may be missing something but... I can only think of 3 AoE kd in total... 1 from mara and 1 from each Eng and magus turrets explosions that is on a 1min cd (and pratically nobody uses)... is this too much?
all in all Heaven fury is a skill that is powerfull in a setting (scenario/smallscale) and a low utility/useless in another (WB+)
Re: [KOTBS] Glory Tree
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:49 pm
by Tesq
Penril wrote:What's wrong with Heaven's Fury?
Well...chosen/kobs stag have some problem, cd is 20 sec when it was 9 sec it was a 50 % updatetime stag or every 10 sec like other tank CC now is 20%, even the ap cost is exagerated post nerf, and magus is 6 sec stag aoe ground positioning while ch/kobs is 3 sec cone.... i had a proposal ready with nothing really stunning just QoLC if you want look at it. It's the same issue for both classes i know i made shitons alredy in fact i didn't this yet
Re: [KOTBS] Glory Tree
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:55 am
by tionblack
Kobs already debuffing elemental resistance with his resist aura and if you are talking about another stacking debuff to make it usefull you need to change MIGHTY SOUL tactic making his entire sets of skills and attacks deal elemental damage otherwise its gonna be a little change.
Re: [KOTBS] Focused Mending
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:58 am
by tionblack
Spoiler:
Eathisword wrote:
rmpl wrote:1. Identify the issue.
Focused Mending is a very powerful zero effort tactic
I refute the premisse of this. By comparison, in numbers, I do not think it is actually ''very powerful''.
A)If we take IB/BG 7 points mastery, it heals debuff for 50%. For discussion, take a RP group heal. it heals around 1k for easy math on 6 people.
i) with FM, it heals 6x1150, so 6900 instead of 6000. So an increase of 900. Use 2 healers, the increase is magnified to 1800.
ii) Have a IB/BG debuff that same healer, the heal gets chopped down to 500x6, so 3000. For a difference of 3k, much much greater than the 900 reported for FM.
B) If we take BO's big swing. Increasing build time by 50% on Big swing + big brawling (also 7 points mastery). Again vs RP/zealot, potential effect is 6k heal for 2.5s cast, for a 2400 heal output per second. With added build time, 6k for 3.7s cast, means a 1620 heal output per second, on cast. Effectively chopping down the healing from casts by 30%. More than the 15% knight gives.
C) Intimidating repent for dok/WP. AoE detaunt, 7 points mastery. Reduce all damage by 50%, CD = to duration. Massively more powerful than 15% heal increaser, as it can mitigate thousands of damage per seconds when under focus. Alive healer due to 50% AoE detaunt is much better than 15% heal.
I understand that knight's FM is passive, hence it grants 15%. BO, IB, BG requires skill + position to activate but the effects are orders of magnitudes greater. Same goes for dok/WP AoE detaunts.
Conclusion : for a 7 points tactic, FM is not powerful compared to other 7 points tactic that can be used to increase or mitigate healing production. It's just easier to use. So the solution might reside in increasing usage difficulty, not in reducing the number it provides or increasing how high it is in the mastery tree.
Dude,thanks to you Much appritiated.
Re: [KOTBS] Glory Tree
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:59 am
by Osred
@Penril. So where are we at now with this discussion. What talking points are going to be brought forward to the mystery balance devs.
Re: [KOTBS] Glory Tree
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:26 am
by rmpl
Would Mighty Soul be more interesting if Blazing Blade wasn't a dot but a normal attack like Sunder or Precision Strike?
Much appritiated.