Return of Reckoning

Ysaran wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:54 pm

Charon wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:49 pm

Ysaran wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:04 pm

Most Order's players have BiS gear already and thus they either switched to Destru or stopped playing. As soon new contents comes out Order will be outnumbering Distru again, don't worry.
About the skirmish mentality I think is due to Order's population composition. Lots of dps AM, Engies, rSW, WH and WL. These classes perform (or performed, perhaps) very well in solo and so most Order player don't group up. This, coupled with the pathological lack of tank and AoE players, created an inability to sustain prolonged fight. The only case where Order has the upper hand is in keep/fort fight (either attack or defense) and in skirmish.
At least that's how I see it. Also, the complaints about the new rSH are another offspring of Order solo mentality. Before the rework, Order had the edge, but now there's a new soloers predator

i agree mostly but ..according to general knowlege there is more destro mains than order ..so if there will be new content ....you know the answer

I was playing Order when City came out and I remember that Order get to IC at least once per day. maybe memory is playing me

When city first came out it was a race of who throws faster

Ranged SH was severely underpowered and they buffed it reasonably. Dont like the ranged KD order? well deal with it, Destro has had to deal with your multiple ranged KDs for a long time now. The damage is decent, it has a few good finishers, but nothing the Ranged SW doesnt have. Compared to Sorc or BW the burst damage is way inferior. The ranged KD and of course heal debuff coupled with decent damage now make it worthy of a group slot. So yeah, i'd say SW and RSH are about where they need to be. Try getting crit by 1000+ per tick by a triple Broadhead arrow stack that is AoE.

Remember the big RSW rework? how many SWs did you see out in the field, maybe 50% of the entire pop. That's what happens with bigger reworks, so give it a month or two and people will move on to other classes.

About the Realm imbalance, remember a few months ago when it was 4 or 5 order premade guilds running together and stomping the crap out of Destro? the imbalance comes and goes in periods, people run side a few months, get bored. try something else. I am 100% Destro so dont expect Destro mains to flip sides to balance out the %'s. Not everyone can Xrealm. There must be incentive in the RvR campaign. I think the actual class balance as Wargrimnir stated in another post, is much closer than people make it out to be.

-The only thing that could be implemented is some kind of reward system for the underdog side, besides AAO, maybe have AAO affect drop rate of invader/royal shards as well. That may not be enough to balance out realms but its something.
- Vanquisher medallions should also be useable not just to buy BoE items to salvage, but able to buy cosmetic items/special dyes/potions with. Like new funky Slayer mohawk hairstyles etc. Make it interesting and hilarious to play some of these order toons, even entice those Destro players!
-Make SOVEREIGN weapons the ultimate weapons but ORVR T4 influence based - new INF bar & long grind obtainable from T4 keep takes (small inf reward for win, no reward for loss), forts (tiny inf on loss, medium on win), and cities- (larger inf reward on win, small reward on loss) Players should not be able to buy them outright once they are live with the amounts of Royals they have stored. Again, add stuff to Royal and Invader merchants to make people able to USE their medallions for something once they've got their gear sets. This is very very important. Maybe make a contest who can suggest the best ideas for Cosmetics / Potions / Fun stuff besides gear that players could buy, and top 3 winners get a prize.

We do appreciate all the work the GM's / Dev's put in we need to keep up the good work together and keep it fun, for all!

A triple BH stack that is cleansable in 1 GCD while it takes 3 to apply ?

The issue isnt just the ranged knockdown on SH it is that they have absolutely everything (stealth in the next patch I heard), I have seen streamers who play SH to a high level say they don't expect them to keep all the tools they have as they have so much compared to everyone else. In general I think they have done a good job with the SH damage and risk but you can't deny the attractiveness for a starting player why wouldn't you play any other class? Only down side is you look like a giant gumdrop.

Meh, if you've been playing for as long as you say you have then you would know that population balance swings both ways over large periods of time. As for aao, that's how I got high rank on me choppa. So, go get'em tiger!!

Gurf wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:05 pm

Spoiler:

Ysaran wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:50 pm

Gurf wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:57 am


I have played for almost exactly year now since the start of lockdowns. When I started at the start of 2020 Destro had much larger pop, then Order had a period few months ago when they had 55% population on average after SW changes, which lasted about 2-3 months, now back to Destro pop advantage again. So 8-9 months out of 12 (about 80%) of the time Destro had population advantage last year.

You joined Wednesday 17th June. June is the 6th month so you are playing since 7 months on 17th January. You are playing from 6 months, stop lying. You don't know how population was this year

Sorry I know exactly when I started playing, why would I lie lol weirdo . I recreated my account at the start as it was bugging out. Anyone who played at the start of the year knows that Destro dominated then, there is no point lying when anyone who played around then knows the truth

LMAO

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PlagueMonk wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:29 pm

RathBrand wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:16 pm I agree that Order has been underpopulated compared to destro for the last few weeks and in general for the last few months outside of NA primetime.

However, I do feel that order has some good leaders and good guilds running and flipping and taking zones and keeps isn't as big an issue except for when the populations are way out of balance. I would say it seems like destro has more skirmishers. When I play on my destro character, it feels like a much bigger struggle to find organized warbands to join and an overall lack of coordination.

I sometimes hear from others that play both sides that the destro toons are more fun, especially tanks and melee dps, but also classes like shaman. Plus with the recent Squig Herder buffs, there are probably a lot of people checking that out. And order, as has been the case for a long time, is usually lacking in tanks, melee dps, and healers.

I wish people would switch to the side with the lower pop to help balance things out, but outside of the AAO bump, there isn't much incentive for people to do that. It isn't much fun playing on Sundays with Warhost vs Vanguard numbers.

It's not just that the Dest classes are funner to play, they are in most cases BETTER (which in turn makes them funner) add to that Dest classes synergize better and it's no wonder people are flipping over to Dest. Hell even most of my guild (including my guild leader) were playing Dest most of last week and all weekend for the 2x exp. What I have heard across the board was the Dest counterparts were a better/stronger class (which I have been hearing the more I talk with Xrealmers). I am 100% Order but it gets discouraging when you continue to see the opposition getting buffs (holy crap OPed SHs) while the Order classes are either neglected (like the IB) or just nerfed for no reason (most recent was the WL pounce debacle)

Oh and beyond about 20%-40% AAO you are so severely outnumbered that the bump is meaningless because you are continually trounced.

And even with NA Primetime, the problem recently is NA Order is logging on to see most areas pushed in favor of Dest so we have to continually be on defense/Forts with little chance to push neutral zones in our favor. Hell once I logged on last week to see EVERY zone with at least a 100% AAO.

Duuude, you are biased. Let me tell you the truth.
IB is weaker than BG.
SM and BO are equal.
Kodbs is better than Chosen.
White Lion is better than Marauder.
Slayer is better than Choppa.
BW is better than Sorc.
Engi is better than Magus.
WH was weaker than WE...with the recent buff is way better in wb play. I would say equal now.
Runepriest and Zealot are equal.
WP is better than DoK.
SW and SH equal - msh is better aoe, mSW is better ST, and equal too as ranged
ArchMage and Shaman are equal - the only advantage of shammy is its small model size.
I count 6 order class that are better than destro counterpart, and 2-3 destro which are better than order ones. That is.

NSKaneda wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:17 pm and that's more times than whole previous year combined. Playing as destro is slowly, very slowly transitioning from easy mode to actually having to pay attention to the battlefield and I really hope order will start thinking in terms of realm instead of solo classes and 1:1 mirroring.

One can dream..

Funny how the one way mirroring only goes from Order to Destro for the most part, then.

Destro definitely whines much more considering how easy Destro side is.

engharat wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:11 pm IB is weaker than BG.
SM and BO are equal.
Kodbs is better than Chosen.
White Lion is better than Marauder.
Slayer is better than Choppa.
BW is better than Sorc.
Engi is better than Magus.
WH was weaker than WE...with the recent buff is way better in wb play. I would say equal now.
Runepriest and Zealot are equal.
WP is better than DoK.
SW and SH equal - msh is better aoe, mSW is better ST, and equal too as ranged
ArchMage and Shaman are equal - the only advantage of shammy is its small model size.
I count 6 order class that are better than destro counterpart, and 2-3 destro which are better than order ones. That is.

IB is decent, fairly close to BG
BO is better than SM. Remove the cooldown decreaser added by Torque and they might be closer.
Knight and Chosen are roughly equal, excluding Chosen's damage reflect cheese, which needs an ICD like the Knight version.
WL is not better than Mara, that's for sure. Mara is full of utility and cheese like Monstro proc, WL can put out deceptively good numbers
Choppa is better than Slayer. Chop Fasta >. Rampage is overrated.
Sorc is better than BW even without a group, and in a group they are supreme (superior debuffs)
Magus is leagues better than Engi except single target, in which case they're roughly equal but the Engi being much smaller is a big advantage.
Zealot is better than RP. Too much one-way mirroring to Zealot, while Zealot gets to keep Talon, WOI, Windblock, and Morale Build all to itself.
SH is better than SW. With the patch Skirm is very strong though.
Shaman is better than AM. Again, too much one-way mirroring and AM nerfs (Wild Healing, Isha's Ward)


Order has 0 classes that are better. They're equal at best, and only in certain setups and niche situations.

Charon wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:49 pm destro has huge egdge in group play (at least in mid level) and i dont see any real atempts to addres that.

I don't think that Destru has any edge in group play, but rather that Order has so much more solo potential that actually this dis-incentivize grouping up. Destru classes have less self sustain and so they HAVE to group up in Order to survive. An example is Engie Keg.

Charon wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:18 pm

Ysaran wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:04 pm I was playing Order when City came out and I remember that Order get to IC at least once per day. maybe memory is playing me

The population is usually wavy and numbers depends on specific period after the new content release. Destro>order>derstro>order > boredom alts play - mostly destro (now influenced also by rsh changes). Its somehow dependent which "mains" main x-realming guilds want to develop first (i think after sov release it started from short order dominance period, im not sure i came back to game in may/june). But because currently you can count a number of big order guilds/alliances with fingers of your main hand you may expect what will be a shape of order after new content appears. Of course i see devs attempts to disperse population by force just by limiting access of destro wb-s to city, (even some destro well know leaders are looking for some skirmish at order now bc boredom) but it will not work and stabilise population in long term and thread like this will be published again and again again ( how many new version of thread "why order is what it is" we will see in future?)

Here you have a point. Reality is that "Winning Realm" is the one that have the big guilds playing. And usually these "big guilds" don't play just one side. I'm fine with this, but most ppl don't get it and think it is a "balance problem".