Return of Reckoning

If you want teams to actively queue for CW/EC all the time let's start with giving them some more renown ...

DefinitelyNotWingz wrote:

Cimba wrote:

Zamoth wrote:Asked yourself why 6vs6 is dead atm? Maybe there is some sort of coherence to what has "happened" to heal doks/wps....

Melee heal dok/wp are just broken in small scale. So it cant be that they aren't imbalanced anymore. Maybe it's because some people can't/don't want adapt to change? Maybe it's because some of the driving players of that community are perm banned? Well doesn't matter in the end.

I ilke the proposal. Even though I have doubts that it will be done. The Devs have stated repeatedly that they consider their part done with introducing 6on6 scenarios.
I don't think there is any need for any kind of rankings. I mean we're talking about ~1k active players. If every fraction has more then 6 or 7 grps that actually play better then PUG level I would be surprised. The grps know each other and if they are honest with themself know where they are ranked.

I partly agree with Cimba.

In my opinion the new kind of meleedok requires 0 (zero) skill since you cant really counter a 0 cd ability which is not a cast, not affected by hd and cant really be blocked or parried. The fact that order doesnt have a decent cd increase makes it even worse.
Apart from that, procs still exist and require even less skill than mdoks.
On top of that there is like a handful of grps left, not even half as many as in t3.

Face it, 6on6 is as dead as smallscale balance.

Pretty much this...

The problem with the 6v6 scene is that, even if you are able to find enough players to participate, it lends it self to cheesedick FOTM setups. I can usually predict the outcome of a 6v6 just by seeing the class makeup. I far prefer random group 6v6 setups or mirrored set-ups as opposed to being forced to fight whatever team is there. I don't think there is any possible way to regulate anything like that right now though.

drmordread wrote:The reason you see little pre made interest in the 6v6 SC's is because premades do not want to lose, so they solo que for the PUG sc. Which reinforces the thinking I have had since live .... 6 man premades are just bad players who need (a) a group so they can function and (b) Pugs to beat up on so that they can stroke their egos with wins.

I solo queue, duo queue, and group queue all the time. In the lakes, I get massacred in 1v1s and I destroy in 1v1s based on my setup, at the time, and the player I'm facing. You can't equate solo vs group play into skill directly, as so many people like to do, especially when you have classes that were designed to be efficient solo killers and others that were designed to be part of a group. Dueling means nothing either since most people respec just for duels. I participated in hundreds of 1v1s and I was always specced the same way as I was in the lakes (tanky 2 and glass cannon rift usually).

I've always played just for my enjoyment. Having a 6 man increases your chances for getting a queue if you are in a group...and some of us just like to bs while we play. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Dabbart wrote:Giving any added gains to 6man SCs. There have been a bunch of threads about adding more medallions/xp/RR/etc to the 6man queues due to the added nature of difficulty in beating another premade, or simply to give cosmetic gear/extra gains from SCs to incentivise more organized play.

Every thread was answered the same, (obviously not directly quoting) "You don't need any more gains than you inherently have from forming a 6man." Refering to the "advantage" over the standard players that you have for being in a com-organized group of buddies whom all spec to support the group. Fight for the sake of the fight, not the inherent bonus you get. Which I agree with. But at some point, maybe a Carrot just for the sake of it might be worthwhile.

Using Alt appearances for Carrots was also dismissed, since we, the players, have no idea what is in store for us in terms of appearances for yet to be released gear. So that which we want, might already be used for something else. Not to mention Live event rewards. Using the "tokens" for other types of alt appearances(like from lairs) could be cool though.

The topic however, should not get bogged down into what the Carrot should be, but(imo) about whether or not a Carrot should be there at all?

Spoiler:

@Mordread Wow. That feels like one hell of a projection there mate. Maybe you just don't like premades, cause it shows off to the world how "good" of a player you actually are? Maybe relax on the direct insults a bit. We're not all losers incapable of compartmentalizing a video game loss...

I'm interested in this. Not because I run in any premades, but because I can recognize that it's a tougher queue to get rolling. Alt appearance gear is going to be a post-Patcher project, as we've said before. The Patcher is real. I've used it. Going to need a bunch of work to get it to a release state, but it is a real thing, not hand-waving dismissal. What system we might use at that time hasn't been determined yet. However, I could see making a couple repeatable quests for different win totals and having some vanity items/dye out there.

If you guys want to do some sort of teams/bracket/ladder system I would be happy to sticky the thread to the Events section. Getting some kind of automated integration built into the game probably isn't possible with the things that can be pulled from it currently. I'll even post the draft (that someone else writes) and update it with legit 6v6 screenshots of the final scoreboard.

A couple quests are not a lot of dev work to do, but it's something. With all the other projects out there being worked on, you might imagine why it was shot down in the past. I think I currently have 4-5 things I want to work on, but some of that stuff is locked up until the post-Patcher era as well.

That's great to hear, Grimnir! Bracket system would be cool provided enough interest can be stirred and - most importantly - maintained.

Letting the rocks jumble around in my head for a bit on this. It's trickier than you might think.

All of this should be considered exploratory, and will require the RoR team commitment to fully implement if they deem it worthwhile.

6v6 Team Scenario Tournament

Eternal Citadel (left bracket) vs Caledor Woods (right bracket)

Would require at least 24 interested Players.
4 team bracket


Would require at least 48 interested Players.
8 team bracket


Primary Team Composition

- Characters must be R40. Each player MUST have a R40 Order AND Destro character. No other requirements or restrictions on renown, gear, or consumables during battles.
- Each team will have a 10 slot roster. 6 slots MUST be filled to create a team.
- Team Names must be assigned in accordance to the ToS, naturally.
- One Team Captain must be assigned to declare the results of a match. They do not necessarily need to participate in the match, but they will be responsible for posting the results.
- Each team will have Destro or Order as their primary faction. In the event two Destro teams meet in battle, the one with the better record will maintain their faction. If teams meet with even records, random assignment will occur to determine the matchup (unless mutually agreed upon).
- Your Primary team will be the one in which you are selected of the first 6 slots.
- You must select 2 characters (1 Order, 1 Destro) to dedicate to your Primary team before brackets are filled, these characters are LOCKED IN.
- Brackets will be randomly assigned, all Primary teams and their declared characters will be LOCKED IN. This will be announced 1 day before the lock occurs for any final adjustments.

Initially, teams will only have 6 Players assigned to the team. Each player must declare 2 characters, one from each faction. This means each team should coordinate a potential comp for playing either Order or Destro (although you will represent your primary faction throughout).

Secondary Team Composition

- Your Secondary team members may only be assigned after the brackets are filled, using the remaining 4 slots.
- Each Player cannot have Secondary team on the same side of the bracket as your Primary team.
- You may have a Secondary slot even if you were not assigned to a Primary slot.
- Each player must select 2 characters dedicated to either the Primary or Secondary team, but these cannot overlap with either team. (Potentially, each Player may have 2 Destro and 2 Order Characters involved in the entire bracket at best)
- If both your Primary and Secondary teams make it to the finals, you MUST play with your Primary team.
- One week after Brackets are assigned, all teams will be locked in with their players and declared characters. At this point, Bracket Battles may begin.

Bracket Battles

- You must battle on your side of the bracket to accumulate wins against your opponent. If you are on the left side, you must fight in Eternal Citadel. Right side, Caledor Woods.
- Queue appropriately, and coordinate with your opponents whenever possible. Incidental victories will count provided they are declared and validated.
- Team Captains must post a screenshot of their victory. If all valid characters are present on both sides, it will be declared a WIN. Characters renamed during the entirety of the 6v6 tournament will no longer count as valid members of the team.
- Each matchup will be a best of 5. The first Team Captain to declare three victories will move on to the next stage.
- Each matchup will be held for 1 week.
- In the event a matchup is not finished within the week, the team with the most wins will progress. If both teams are tied, the first team to record a win against their next opponent will advance. If neither team completes a match, both teams will be disqualified and removed, and previous wins will not count for rewards.
- Home field advantage will be determined by the highest number of wins/ties for the Final. This means the first two battles of the Final will be in the scenario of the bracket finalist. Example of progress as EC, EC, CW, CW, EC, (CW), (EC), etc. (to account for possible ties during the final)
- The Final MUST have a GM present during each battle and will also be a best of 5. If a GM does not validate a match, it will not be considered.

POTENTIAL REWARDS
- Each victory recorded will result in additional 10 emblems for the 6 characters of the winning team present, and 5 emblems for the 4 characters on the winning team not present.
- In the event of an 8 team bracket, winners of the semi-final will receive a trophy as well.
- Winners of the final will receive an additional trophy, and a title. A banner with the Team Name will be created in the winning factions capital city. Near Sigmar's Temple, or The Monolith. This will be the faction initially declared by the team as their primary.
- All rewards will be totaled at the end of Final. These may be claimed by contacting a GM. Rewards will be assigned on a Character basis. Any name changes before rewards are assigned will invalidate your claims. No rewards will be assigned outside of this period.

Dude that's friggin' awesome! Note: it should require minimal GM interaction as it is a niche platform/don't want to waste GMs' time, but the final should definitely have support from GMs.

The EC/CW tournament you want just arnt goin to work like you want it to. Its objective based and you can just turtle trough both of em with 3 tanks + 3 heals just to make sure yiu don't lose. Game has never supported these kinda things due to being objective based. And if you add "house rules" to the maps you gonna need a GM spectator to make sure those rules are followed.

In order to appeal to as many people as possible, I would suggest some additional rules, that must be agreed upon before a match.

Possibilities include:
•Limit of 1 character type per group (1 wp, 1 kobs, etc.)
•Mirrored matchups like 2-2-2 or 1-3-2
•Mirrored classes (e.g. BW vs Sorc, Melee WP vs Melee DoK)
•Racial Battles (e.g. Greenskins vs Dwarves)
•Etc