Return of Reckoning

Okay, thanks for the clarification

dansari wrote:

Arteker616 wrote: the same could been said of sw , having all the good stuff in skirmisher , and so on.

If by "all the good stuff" you mean "is the most potent tree," then yeah... But I fail to see the comparison to getting a heal debuff, wounds debuff, and armor debuff.

RKD-HD- ini debuff, and fs

Fail. You forgot Powerful Draw (the one thing that makes Skirmisher the most potent tree).

Penril wrote: Has a rr40 character of the class he is discussing,

Tesq actually has a r40 wl with more than half an hour playtime in t4?
Anyway, my whole impression is that balance as a whole lacks direction, with a bunch of active forum groups that clout and devs eventually give into pressure from one of the sides and something gets nerfed.
There are some bigger questions to be asked and answered so to speak, before we move into specifics.

He doesn't, which is why I explicitly said we would only discuss BG/Mara.

Arteker616 wrote:RKD-HD- ini debuff, and fs

Plus Powerful Draw. So, a really good tactic, an rkd+80ish? ini debuff on 20s (100% uptime, yes, strong), plus a 50% heal debuff, plus a crit % finisher.

I raise you:
a 320 stat speccable tactic
a 400% uptime 100 wounds debuff
a 100% uptime 1000 armor debuff
another good tactic that increases your base heal debuff from 25% to 50% plus transfers any healing on the target into you
a 50% uptime ap regen slow
a base level toughness debuff on no cd (a standard mdps ability I think)
a finisher setup in Gut Ripper

Skirmisher is great, but let's not compare it to Savagery.

I don't play Mara, but it seems overkill to have all that in one tree. I think Penril's suggestions would be moderate in approach in splitting up some of the more desirable abilities, but I'm just looking at what's on paper.

dansari wrote:

Arteker616 wrote:RKD-HD- ini debuff, and fs

Plus Powerful Draw. So, a really good tactic, an rkd+80ish? ini debuff on 20s (100% uptime, yes, strong), plus a 50% heal debuff, plus a crit % finisher.

I raise you:
a 320 stat speccable tactic
a 400% uptime 100 wounds debuff
a 100% uptime 1000 armor debuff
another good tactic that increases your base heal debuff from 25% to 50% plus transfers any healing on the target into you
a 50% uptime ap regen slow
a base level toughness debuff on no cd (a standard mdps ability I think)
a finisher setup in Gut Ripper

Skirmisher is great, but let's not compare it to Savagery.

I don't play Mara, but it seems overkill to have all that in one tree. I think Penril's suggestions would be moderate in approach in splitting up some of the more desirable abilities, but I'm just looking at what's on paper.

Only half that stuff sees any play sure its good to have but generally it sits on the shelf and is never taken down.

dansari wrote:

Arteker616 wrote:RKD-HD- ini debuff, and fs

another good tactic that increases your base heal debuff from 25% to 50% plus transfers any healing on the target into you.

The "base" healdebuff of 50% actually every mdps should have and has except mara, who needs to sacrifice a tactic slot for it. Its only fair for him to have a little extra buff with that and that is the low amount of healing he recieves as long as tainted claw is on the target.
You are selling it like he gets the full heal the target recieves, but he only gets 25% of the initial heal.

Same will be for the mara, the attempt to kill the all in one Mara with Penril's ability shifts in the trees, will just lead to the point where maras ignore the wounds debuff (mandatory Chosen still got his) and go for the really really ugly ap drain builds.

Wasn't trying to sell it like that at all. The tooltip clearly shows they get 50% of the healing the player receives (already at 50% of total value, so 25% like you said). This doesn't negate the argument that one tree in particular makes you a debuff machine with good damage to boot.

Panzerkasper wrote: go for the really really ugly ap drain builds.

Maras would always he ap drain in the end though?


Yeah it's 40/80 build but they always get it
In the end and so in the grand scheme really nothing changed