Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem

[TenTonHammer]

After playing mara quite some time in t4, I feel at this point in the game, that it is no small understatement to call Mara is the best mdps in the game; certainly so on destro due to its potent debuffs, damage and utility. The problem is that as the maastery trees currently stand the only thing mara players have to really think is whether they want to go "warband spec" or the cookie cutter get everything in one spec with sav brute which is also great in WB.(http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... ;;;0:0:0:0:)

I feel that Mara's need to be made to choose what kind of role they want to play as either a damage dealer or debuffer

I wanted to put forth some suggestions on mastery tree changes and have a discussion about the changes before i put forth a potential proposal

Draining swipes down to 5 points, it is not potent enough of an ability to justify the 13 point cost as it needs to work in tandem with an ap drain or bg's ap cost increaser

TB up to 9

CC, being the most potent armor debuff in the game due to being undefendable and the largest amount debuffed due to the number of points always invested into sav, should be moved to 13

I feel that deadly clutch tactic should be moved down to 7 and exhaustive stikes up to 11, every specable 50% inc hd in the game is at 9pts i feel that since the tactic is akin to that it should be moved closer to that 9pts spot,this wont affect maras power curve in the long run as they would still invest 13 points in the sav tree for CC if they commit to sav


Wave of Terror down to 5 pts and Guillotine up to 13, the latter change would split up the front load + backload burst combo between TB and its high tool tip damage + very large wounds debuff and Guillotine's auto crits


Lastly; i want to talk about piercing bite, going based off the assumption that the 50% ignore value would never be changed i feel it should not "be given away for free", it is defiantly one of the most powerful mdps tactics in the game on a class that already has the highest armor debuff in the game + armor ignore from weapon skill and impale back attacks

As such i purpose that PB become an 11 point tactic on the monstro tree and crushing blows becomes a core tactic at 39 instead

Now maras will need to choose between savs potent debuffs, bruts mutated aggressor + 50% crit tactic, and PB and if they do for damage and such then this would allow other debuffer sources to shine

[Haojin]

i think mara needs pounce.

[ToXoS]

The only issue I see about the marauder is that it got pounce at 5 points in a very good tree.
Oh wait, wrong class

[Panzerkasper]

I feel that Mara's need to be made to choose what kind of role they want to play as either a damage dealer or debuffer

Is a wierd statement, when you want to switch a core tactic for damage with a utility tactic for morale drain.

I would leave TB where it is, Chosen has also a wounds debuff and even the WP, who cant cleanse it, has a pretty broken counterplay to it, but thats a different story.

Im with you with putting Cutttin Claw to 13 points, but let it be said, if you do this -> same should happen to WL.
What i would actually more like to see is switching the armor debuff values Mara <-> BG and WL <-> IB.
Whatever comes, we will see much more ap drain maras, if any of these changes come.

I'm not so sure about switching Guillotine to 13, along with the other suggestions you proposed here it will leave the mara open to really commit into 1 tree and i fear of some really ugly double mara meta again, wich i honestly don't wanna see.

[gandresch]

why do people always keep putting the Marauder in the same box like the WL?
The WL dont have an inc HD, HP debuff and an armor debuff all together, and that even in the same tree. So u cant compare them.

Sure something needs to be changed with the marauder with his holy trinity and i am sure the Devs have something in mind already.

[Toldavf]

This would be counter productive to the play style of the class. Marauder needs more reason to stance dance not less.

[TenTonHammer]

This would be counter productive to the play style of the class. Marauder needs more reason to stance dance not less.

Correct me if im wrong but mara ST rotation is just: clense cover > TB > CC > inc hd > brut shift >impale filler/ferocious assault > re-apply debuffs/giouttine if possible

Monstro shift if WB AoE or getting focused

Not a lot of "real stance dancing" nor like its some real high skill thing and more just swapping to brut only for giouttine really in the first place and in the past you wanted TB to have a 5scd because you felt that impale wasnt sufficient enough of a filler which would have reduced the need to stance dance more in the first place, so what do you propose instead then?

Is a wierd statement, when you want to switch a core tactic for damage with a utility tactic for morale drain.

I would leave TB where it is, Chosen has also a wounds debuff and even the WP, who cant cleanse it, has a pretty broken counterplay to it, but thats a different story.

Im with you with putting Cutttin Claw to 13 points, but let it be said, if you do this -> same should happen to WL.
What i would actually more like to see is switching the armor debuff values Mara <-> BG and WL <-> IB.
Whatever comes, we will see much more ap drain maras, if any of these changes come.

I'm not so sure about switching Guillotine to 13, along with the other suggestions you proposed here it will leave the mara open to really commit into 1 tree and i fear of some really ugly double mara meta again, wich i honestly don't wanna see.

My problem with piercing bite is thats its such a potent tactic on a class that dost deserve it due to the reasons i stated and certainly not for free, the ideal solution in my eyes is to reduce the 50% ignore to 10%


Same with tb Its the highest wounds debuff in the game with 13 point with the lowest ease of requirements doesnt requre 2h, or a specifc aura or crit nor class resource commitment having said all that if you go to sav on my suggestion your going to commit upto CC, so in the grand scheme of things wont affect things much if its 5 or 9 now as in the end you will always grab DS, cc and TB


I dont play high elves so i dont want to make a WL related suggestion then have it dismissed just because i don't play the class


Im not certian about giouttine at 13 either but i felt that having mutated aggressor easier to access would be nice to debuff centric sav specs for a nice little damage spike

I have also considered swapping unstable convulsions and growing instability


Double mara is already a thing and never really went away simply because of how strong and versatile the class is, they already do great damage, utltity and are easier to keep alive than choppa/WE




My overarching goal is simply to split the ease of access to TB, Giouttine, CC, and 50% crit

[Toldavf]

This would be counter productive to the play style of the class. Marauder needs more reason to stance dance not less.

Correct me if im wrong but mara ST rotation is just: clense cover > TB > CC > inc hd > brut shift >impale filler/ferocious assault > re-apply debuffs/giouttine if possible

Generally My rotation starts with TB as with good focus any target that receives a cleanse will still struggle to regain the lost hp then yep onto cutting claw and into your heal debuff from there you have access to a Snare, Draining Swipes and Gutripper all of which hit reasonably hard and wont cause you to loose dps, The brutality switch is something that comes when the target is ready to be killed you get 2 big damage abilities in the Brute stance Pulverise and Giloutine if you can get a Gutripper before you switch stance all the better. After that its impale till you can change back, because everything else is either not worth using vs a low hp target or hits like a wet noodle.

I mean that's ideal but there are times when you will swap and the target suddenly recovers some hp and you struggle like hell to bring them under 50% again because aside from 2 skills brutality is not the burst tree it is sold as.

[Dajciekrwi]

Please, can you tell which nickname have Your marauder?
I just want to see some marauders who feel advantages of this class in orvr.
With any sarcasm or irony, just to know some new tricks.

[Wdova]

Maras are verry strong, no doubt. Verry strong debuffs, 50% armor ignore tactic for mutation req. attacks, 50% crit dmg tactic, +20% critical chance tactic, self buff 25% dmg, self buff strenght+toughnes, auto crit guilotine, pull, best detaunt in game(5s duration with 10s CD),superb survivability in monstro against non magic attacks. In monstro spec there is a spamable demolition(combined with 50% armor ignore tactic, 50% crit dmg and 20% crit chance) it solid dmg, AOE knockdown and AOE dot with debuff.
Conclusion is mara has great single target and AOE dmg with great debuffs and survivability.
If you compare it to choppa or WE, it is clear who is most powerfull here.
I would not nerf marauder, but rather buff some aspects of WE(stronger wounds debuff for HRT/Mara 160ws, BG 120ws tactic - can be AOE, Chosen 80-90 WS AOE, WE 88WS single target in witchbrew spec/ , stronger from stealth attacks, lower detaunt duration and CD(10s duration with 20s CD) and Choppa(Keep on choppin +75AP exhaust attack/cost 25AP gain 100AP/ replace with adequate skill to slayers rampage and AOE "git to da choppa" replacement with something more controlable and usefull skill which would worth 13 mastery points).