Return of Reckoning

wargrimnir wrote:...or wait til the melee changes it was intended to fit.

wargrimnir wrote:Not that it matters much, but we're not making changes to Dok/WP Beastlord. Find a way to use it, or don't, or wait til the melee changes it was intended to fit.

Oh no, I hope these melee changes aren't coming out soon? I honestly feel the only thing grace really needs right now is better itemisation, other than a snare removal tool of course, but that's just my opinion. At any rate, what changes can we expect? A willpower to strength conversion?

Manatikik wrote:

Arena wrote:

Leecifer wrote:In my experience, a 2 - 2 - 2 premade will almost always beat out any non trinity group. Unless there is a large disparity in either teamwork or gear.

2011 year - my premade wins 100% scenarios, even against 2 premades.
We had: 2 mele doks, 2 mdd choosens, 1 mdd BG, 1 heal dok. That 3rd dok was since we start, that was in 2010, there was diffirent heal from damage mechanic back there, doks could heal in melee only for 10 feet around them, that why we use 3rd dok as healer - so he can stay with us all the time, and also heal if someone is left behind. It was hard, but when i teach and lead all of them we newer loose again. Our premade broke up in 2 months after 100rr patch was released and most of them leave the game. I stay and played in another friends group with unchanged build.
I agreed that 2+2+2 premades are easy to collect and effective, mostly because of that it almost always put together by everyone - easy to collect. Custom premades always stronger, but they usually harder to collect and lern to play.

I too like to use anecdotal evidence from six years ago to back up my arguments.

On a serious note though running melee healers is a liability because to be in position they have to be out of position for their role. No amount of pure healing numbers makes up for the fact that a rp/zealot in the back would be adding more to your group with safe heals, not eating a guard, not healing themselves to pad numbers, and a 6 second range stagger on an enemy healer.

Exqueeze me, Fenrol, but I do not pad my numbers with self heals! About 83+1/3% of that healing I did that night against rocks was to the group. Like Lee said, I was pretty much solo healing while Grunk was doing his utility stuff, and it was more than enough to keep everyone alive until, of course, they focused down Nerd while the tanks were separated.

With all due respect (you do melee heal very well), against a group like Legion of Boom's Mara/Choppa comp, melee heal is completely neutered.

Niakahn wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:Not that it matters much, but we're not making changes to Dok/WP Beastlord. Find a way to use it, or don't, or wait til the melee changes it was intended to fit.

Oh no, I hope these melee changes aren't coming out soon? I honestly feel the only thing grace really needs right now is better itemisation, other than a snare removal tool of course, but that's just my opinion. At any rate, what changes can we expect? A willpower to strength conversion?

As long as there are melee healers standing in the backline, you can be sure we're not quite done yet. Issue is that any meaningful changes will come once we're able to change the components within the client to make them behave as intended without having to resort to code trickery and obfuscation buried in patchnotes.

peterthepan3 wrote:With all due respect (you do melee heal very well), against a group like Legion of Boom's Mara/Choppa comp, melee heal is completely neutered.

Oh no, I'm not saying that they're ready to compete with the top guilds on the server at the present moment. By no means! I'm just saying I personally feel like the problem inherently lies with the itemisation. That, and a snare removal. But I'm probably missing something, here. After all, I 'm not as knowledgeableon the competitive side of the game as you are.

wargrimnir wrote:

Niakahn wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:Not that it matters much, but we're not making changes to Dok/WP Beastlord. Find a way to use it, or don't, or wait til the melee changes it was intended to fit.

Oh no, I hope these melee changes aren't coming out soon? I honestly feel the only thing grace really needs right now is better itemisation, other than a snare removal tool of course, but that's just my opinion. At any rate, what changes can we expect? A willpower to strength conversion?

As long as there are melee healers standing in the backline, you can be sure we're not quite done yet. Issue is that any meaningful changes will come once we're able to change the components within the client to make them behave as intended without having to resort to code trickery and obfuscation buried in patchnotes.

Ahh, ok. Thanks for the response.

wargrimnir wrote:Not that it matters much, but we're not making changes to Dok/WP Beastlord. Find a way to use it, or don't, or wait til the melee changes it was intended to fit.

This a million times this. I think I posted this actually back on like page 3. But there is no sense changing a set that was designed for a different playstyle that was removed (but will be brought back) only to change the set again when it is brought back.

As it stands you either just use the cloak - or you use 3 piece for the weapon skill which is less damage than if you were to just put a str tali in the cloak and then another better jewelry item with str on it (tested vs 1-5k armor) so yeah.

But I agree with Grim. Just use the other sets until they have the powaaaaaa to do what they want to do. It isn't always conventional what you have to do to make the melee versions work but it can be a lot of fun if you finally do figure it out.

wargrimnir wrote: As long as there are melee healers standing in the backline, you can be sure we're not quite done yet. Issue is that any meaningful changes will come once we're able to change the components within the client to make them behave as intended without having to resort to code trickery and obfuscation buried in patchnotes.

While you gonna change one build you may break down another. As i understand you want to make DoK healers using 1st tree stay in front and strike enemy sometimes. That's okay. But why do you need to destroy those DoKs, who heal their party by making damade only, without spells? I quit the game after those Azarael's experimental changes, because there is no point to play healer class who can only damage or only heal. DoK doesn't have anything else, so not letting him heal his party like it can now and make enough damage to kill at the same time is destroy this class purpose. DoK will newer be a clear damager, and those changes gonna make him one build cripple class. I already show how DoK can heal in front line, so dont break this working build to change another one.

is same topik on forum without this screenshots ?

wargrimnir wrote:Not that it matters much, but we're not making changes to Dok/WP Beastlord. Find a way to use it, or don't, or wait til the melee changes it was intended to fit.

Out of interest, how those changes will affect dok specced as mdps with lifetaps?

Zxul wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:Not that it matters much, but we're not making changes to Dok/WP Beastlord. Find a way to use it, or don't, or wait til the melee changes it was intended to fit.

Out of interest, how those changes will affect dok specced as mdps with lifetaps?

I don't want to speak for him because I obviously have no idea what he or the staff as a whole have in mind - but I'd say it would be a solution to allow doks to still backline heal (not quite as they do now) but still not be full melee, but also raise the skill ceiling and effectiveness of those who want to be more melee life tap/centric focused.

But I would say be careful when you say DD/Healer - people freak out.

Either you are melee healer - where your primary role is to heal albeit with lifetaps so technically damage

or

You are a melee DD - and healing is not your priority but just part of the class and your primary focus is on damage

or

You are a "back line healer" but in the future I assume it will rely on being more close range, but still more based on casting and less on actual melee abilities.

Just make sure you are more specific because if you say DPS or DD and HEALER in the same sentence people flip out, and mostly because it becomes a jack of all trades type of situation and the idea of an "achetype" goes out the window. The staff are pretty smart so i'm assuming that any change will allow a more melee centric healing, a more frontline healing (less melee), while still also allowing for the traditional DD portion of it as well if you so choose it.