Return of Reckoning

Grock wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:05 pmTalking about tactics RP also doesn't have any resist debuffs while Zealot has tactic and morale, its a bit hard to compare them like that, in any case my point was that 6s channel of ranged damage + snare castable on the move is a bit too much for anyone

Zealot had another resistance debuff back on live too - the original Harbinger of Doom was a ranged corp debuff that got stronger over time. It was removed when both classes got the stat conversion instead. Debuffing resistances is very much a Zealot thing

What was the thought process behind making 6sec channel spells castable on the move?
They have low AP cost, because they had some drawbacks as well, one being "you can't move".

dalen wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:58 pm

companheiros2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:46 pm

Sulorie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:45 pm
Quit embarassing yourself by complaining about a buff for one moral no serious WE would ever use.
It's a logical buff, because all melee channels are usable on the move, so this is just fixing an oversight.
Why would you use a channel moral, which prevents AA and much harder hitting attack abilities?

Tell me.

If a serious WE should never use, so, why change it?

It is literally already explained in the patch notes why it was changed.

That's not the point hehehe

Caduceus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:34 pm RP gets a very powerful M1 'Rune of Insanity' that drains 200 AP (other classes get a similar morale at M2; it's very useful versus healers or in defensive situations), and also Concussive Runes which debuffs a whopping 990 armor in AoE.

I think Zealot ST is definitely the more lacklustre of the two, so I don't see an issue with Storm of Ravens getting a unique advantage. Snares being castable on the move is nothing new, so I find it hard to imagine that this will sudden propel Zealot ST DPS builds to be strong.

I thought it was sarcasm at first
No one in their right mind is using ap drain morales. AP is rarely above 50 in an actual fight, and even if you burn full 200 what that gives you? One regen tick and the target is back in action, not even mentioning AP pots and the fact that there's always group utilities for AP regen.

The armor debuff tactic exists on Zealot as well and was widely used for city setups to support destro melee train, except it also debuffs resistance for Zealot's own damage and for some Sorc abilities, and Zealot in general a lot more useful in such role coz they also brought Winds of Insanity and M4 heal debuff with self morale pump tactic.

In any case its not really a Zealot vs RP discussion, but more whether its appropriate to have such ability in general.
RP/Zeal already have 100ft ranged Stagger and 100ft ranged instacast (as well as buff ability) to catch & dismount people, having a 100ft instant snare with a solid duration (while also doing damage?) would be a bit too much for ORvR imo.
Being casted on the move OR snaring would've been alright, but both at the same time?

Although tbh it does look interesting, i love channeled abilities in WAR and its nice to see them getting some love

Omegus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:05 pm

Grock wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:05 pmTalking about tactics RP also doesn't have any resist debuffs while Zealot has tactic and morale, its a bit hard to compare them like that, in any case my point was that 6s channel of ranged damage + snare castable on the move is a bit too much for anyone

Zealot had another resistance debuff back on live too - the original Harbinger of Doom was a ranged corp debuff that got stronger over time. It was removed when both classes got the stat conversion instead. Debuffing resistances is very much a Zealot thing

Yea i remember it, thats when i actually played the game, the whole stat toggle thing was new to me on RoR
IIRC original Harbinger lasted for like a minute and had very cool crow VFX, i think its reused for some sorc ability now?

It makes no sense to make selected 6s channel spells usable on the move. When you have to kite, use 1st tick only. Should be reverted, there is no reason balance wise, why the channel snares and can be used on the move

Grock wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:40 am
I thought it was sarcasm at first
No one in their right mind is using ap drain morales. AP is rarely above 50 in an actual fight, and even if you burn full 200 what that gives you? One regen tick and the target is back in action, not even mentioning AP pots and the fact that there's always group utilities for AP regen.

I get destro healers logging onto order characters to ask me how I manage to drain their AP like that. (Immolating Grasp + Rune of Insanity is massive AP pressure, + Spellbinding Rune great tools to secure kills on healers).

It's a typical example of utility that is completely overlooked, while actually being very powerful. People who dismiss those unique utilities simply refuse to play a class to it's potential. There's more to Return of Reckoning than damage numbers on the scenario scoreboards.

Sulorie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:32 am It makes no sense to make selected 6s channel spells usable on the move. When you have to kite, use 1st tick only. Should be reverted, there is no reason balance wise, why the channel snares and can be used on the move

Did you get pwned a lot by solo zealot/rps back on live?
The snare attached to a channel is a strictly worse snare than other ranged classes with instant cast 10s snares and they have channel on the move abilities too.
So what exactly makes this unbalanced?

BluIzLucky wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:30 am

Sulorie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:32 am It makes no sense to make selected 6s channel spells usable on the move. When you have to kite, use 1st tick only. Should be reverted, there is no reason balance wise, why the channel snares and can be used on the move

Did you get pwned a lot by solo zealot/rps back on live?
The snare attached to a channel is a strictly worse snare than other ranged classes with instant cast 10s snares and they have channel on the move abilities too.
So what exactly makes this unbalanced?

Do you want to make all range channels usable on the move? This would be the consequence, unless you want to create outlier spells, who follow no system. Want to roll a dice to set duration, range or size of spell effects?
You want to name the range classes with on the move channel casts and instant 10sec snares?

Magus/engi snares are the only ones and both are melee. Both their channel are stationary too.

You confuse range with melee DPS, because some of them throw axes and knives?

Sulorie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:37 am

BluIzLucky wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:30 am

Sulorie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:32 am It makes no sense to make selected 6s channel spells usable on the move. When you have to kite, use 1st tick only. Should be reverted, there is no reason balance wise, why the channel snares and can be used on the move

Did you get pwned a lot by solo zealot/rps back on live?
The snare attached to a channel is a strictly worse snare than other ranged classes with instant cast 10s snares and they have channel on the move abilities too.
So what exactly makes this unbalanced?

Do you want to make all range channels usable on the move? This would be the consequence, unless you want to create outlier spells, who follow no system. Want to roll a dice to set duration, range or size of spell effects?
You want to name the range classes with on the move channel casts and instant 10sec snares?

Magus/engi snares are the only ones and both are melee. Both their channel are stationary too.

You confuse range with melee DPS, because some of them throw axes and knives?

SW and SH exists both have ranged 1 sec (not instant I guess, whatever, it's within the gcd) snares and on the move channels.

And to answer your other points, I think it's fine that each individual channel is unique and has different benefits asides from a stream of dmg. I'm sure the devs could balance, duration, dmg, burst, utility, as many already has.

BluIzLucky wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:12 am

SW and SH exists both have ranged 1 sec (not instant I guess, whatever, it's within the gcd) snares and on the move channels.

And to answer your other points, I think it's fine that each individual channel is unique and has different benefits asides from a stream of dmg. I'm sure the devs could balance, duration, dmg, burst, utility, as many already has.

Their channels last 3 sec and tick every half second. The kind of channels we talk are 6 sec and tick every 2 sec.
You find those on magus, am, sham, sorc, bw, rp, and zeal. You argue that only one of those should be castable on the move, especially while it is one of two with a snare?
You still don't get the picture? The change seems to be random without a purpose.