Return of Reckoning

Correct i tried to limit it to what was in theory post that I replied to.

Added disable_interrupts that I missed



E: removed avoidance debuffs for same reasons

E2: side by side

Warning applied. You would have been just fine explaining the differences before breaking down to nerf-feels-whine, that's the part we take issue with.

No.

Mighty Soul is garbage. Reducing the heal bonus and placing it higher in in tree feels like a double nerf when I see no valid argument as to why it needs to be changed...even in the OP.

Tankbeardz wrote:No.

Mighty Soul is garbage. Reducing the heal bonus and placing it higher in in tree feels like a double nerf when I see no valid argument as to why it needs to be changed...even in the OP.

You are not the one whose opinion matters in the BDF, so you might want to make a better argument than that.

I think you can move the FOCUSED MENDING tactic up if you are willing to make the tree more viable because other than FOCUSED MENDING and Heaven's Fury that tree is pretty much useless and when i say useless i mean it.

1)Conquest Tree is good but not actually for KOBS dps but about the nerfed aoe snare,encouraged aim and the AP AURA.Staggering impact is cool but still unless you are running a spesific setup. It wont be doing so good when you can also get other goodies from other trees.Myrmidias fury is in horrible condition the dps is so bad spamming Precision Strike is a ton better.

2)Vigilance Tree is the backbone of the kobs.The knockdown,the Vigilance,dirty tricks are so good to have.

3)Path of Glory is only good for Focused Mending and the AOE Stagger and maybe some points into it to increase the effectiveness of resist aura.

The problem with knight is all the upper tier tactics are useless ( Efficent Swings,Laurels of Victory ,Mighty Soul)Meanwhile the 2nd obtainable tactics are very viable (Encouraged Aim,Dirty Tricks, Focused mending.)I think the original game developers had really something different in their minds but it didnt go as they expected.

Now making a change on these is a sensetive topic but if we are trying to lower the group support it is bringing on the table then we should find some other ways to make it viable offence wise( I mean the KOBS DPS itself might be increasing str contribution of Myrmidias FUry along with some other offence skills)

You can move those tactic Encouraged AIm,Focused mending and Dirty Tricks to the upper tier of tactics BUT If you do that i think you should make mighty soul effect every skill kobs has along with a morale on block tactic just like chosen does ( remember kobs is the only class with 1 less tactic than others).
This is my humble opinion of course.

As i mentioned before make ''Mighty Soul'' changing entire damage type elemental from physical.

Also please change ''Unbalancing Attack'' compared to other top tier skills this skill by far the worst and really useless.As of yet i cant tell what kind of change can be made but im sure with some brainstorming we can find something nice.

ALl tanks, IMO , need more output for damage, yes, even KotBS. They are very strong in group utility and as @tesq pointed out, the stacking nature of the two tactics on two commonly played classes, could be overpowered against even properly set up Destruction groups.

The questions I raise are these:
1. Can we add some damage to the Knight and lessen their utility?
I believe so.
a. Cut the healing buff to 10% on Focused Mending
b. Move Focused Mending to 13 points
c. Move Mighty Soul down to 8 points
d. Change the effect of Mighty Soul to increase the duration of Shield of the Sun to 15 seconds (from 10 seconds on 30 sec CD, or 30 seconds of every minute)

These changes bring Focused mending into a similar value as the Chosen [Embrace the Winds], add damage to the class similar to the 8 point Chosen tactic [Tainted Wound]

wargrimnir wrote:

Tankbeardz wrote:No.

Mighty Soul is garbage. Reducing the heal bonus and placing it higher in in tree feels like a double nerf when I see no valid argument as to why it needs to be changed...even in the OP.

You are not the one whose opinion matters in the BDF, so you might want to make a better argument than that.

I'm sorry, but I didn't see any actual reason for the proposal. It didn't even look like it followed your regulations for a proposal. Why do you attack players for their opinion...isn't that the purpose of the BDF? I guess not. Warn me.

"I just want to add that the team thinks Mighty Soul is crap." ~Penril

Tankbeardz wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:

Tankbeardz wrote:No.

Mighty Soul is garbage. Reducing the heal bonus and placing it higher in in tree feels like a double nerf when I see no valid argument as to why it needs to be changed...even in the OP.

"I just want to add that the team thinks Mighty Soul is crap." ~Penril

Mighly Soul is useless tk. Not because it idea is somehow wrong but glory tree does't have abilities to do proper dmg. It works only if you would have old Destroy Confidance but it was removed long ago. In every cases runefang is better for increasing knight dmg.

What is more, order does not have any other way to debuff elemental resistance (which desies stacks) than knight aura and SMs HB. Chosen always may spam Ravage supported by magus and sorc spirit debuf. Nerfing FM and not changing MS (changes to Unbalanced atack will be welcome also Tesq made some attempt to that) will only disencourage people to invest in glory tree which will afect mostly efectivenes of GYR aura and negatively influence BW bombing abilities.

in my opinion if you want move up FM, which migh be ok, MS should grant elemental dmg to all knight atacks or be replaced by equivalent of a bit buffed Potent Enchantment or BW Wildfire (cosidering knight does not have good aoe options)

People complain that knight snb is aurabot but what other options this class has. - if you want nerf it give players something interesting and different to do. I have sm, ib, and knight and in my opinion ktobs is most boring to play of all order tanks especialy snb. Both ib (for example Osgrim char) and sm, aside support, might bring at least some additional dmg, snb knight do not.

Boring is not the same as weak.

Penril wrote:Boring is not the same as weak.

I dont neglect his support. But if you going to nerf this kind of abilities, what will left. Maybe its my personal perspective (mostly from sc ) but, Knight recently is last played order tank. i wonder why if hi is so good like everyone think.

PS. aside from snb. in my opinion kotbs 2h version works currently somehow not becouse his abilities but very strong beastlord proc but its different story