Return of Reckoning

NSKaneda wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:That's called running away and surviving; not kiting. Kiting is being able to do effective damage while on the move - which an engineer and magus simply can't.

Right, because all your dots are there just for pretty pictures...


I'm sorry, I duelled as engie and against them, I've seen what the class can do. If Karast would say "engiez can't kite" I'd believe him simply because he's the best I've seen. Until that time I remain sceptical

Key words: effective damage. There's a difference between kiting your enemies in a duel via the use of snares/kds/kbs, and being able to damage effectively - whilst moving.

I duel too, what's your point? Has no bearing on the topic at hand.

NSKaneda wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:That's called running away and surviving; not kiting. Kiting is being able to do effective damage while on the move - which an engineer and magus simply can't.

Right, because all your dots are there just for pretty pictures...


I'm sorry, I duelled as engie and against them, I've seen what the class can do. If Karast would say "engiez can't kite" I'd believe him simply because he's the best I've seen. Until that time I remain sceptical

Duels have nothing to do with 99% of PVP. In the lakes, you don't get time to respec or start a fight with all your abilities on cooldown. I used to duel a lot...and while I loved dueling, the biggest problem I had with duels is people going to respec to try and beat a build I used 24/7 in the lakes and SCs.

My point is: duelling helps you push your build and class to the limits and later on, when you absolutely know what you can and can't do you can start forging your orvr playstyle around it. By this time you'll know strong and weak points of every class and know the tricks you have up your sleeve to deal with them (or help your teammate's skill to be more effective).
It's a difference between 6v6 pressure build and 12v12 rift bot or 24v24 mid-range assist build.

As you've written: this game is not balanced around 1v1. In 6v6 (and higher) you have to take into account what your class can and can't do as well as what other classes in your group can and can't do, skill synergy, race buffs and compatibility, strong and weak points of various classes and so forth. But all those things stem from the knowledge of the limitations of your class. Hence: duels. And frequent build experimentations

For me the main problem I've always faced on my engie was static gameplay (long channeled abilities, long mechanic aquisition post 1.3.6 and so on) but once my guild allowed me to throw away rift build I could devise a build which made my class (one of 2 engies in guild at the time) a must for our setup. Same with SLA and IB (times before Steven Seagull's unkillable IB build).
And that's why my point is that the most limiting thing in this game is build first, class balance second.

It is just insane the engi turrets hit mer like a mile across the map. It is not even funny anymore. :C

kirraha wrote:It is just insane the engi turrets hit mer like a mile across the map. It is not even funny anymore. :C

l2p?

Sad violin off

Hmm l2p, think you forgot to add l2p easy mode

I would like to be enlighten how to kite (to my understanding: to be able to do reasonable dps while keep the opponent on slow movement) with an:

1. 5f ragne sare-skill with an 10 sec duration - while the most mdps/tanks got the same range on snare-skills (IB/BO even more - 30f - )
2. 30f range root-skill with an 5sec duration - that will break to 50% if you damage the rooted opponant... (not kite to me)
3. a stagger-skill that break whitout delay while doing damage (not kite to me)
4. a 3 sec knockdown while maybe your landmine or any other player put the opponent on stun-immunity

I congratulate anyone for beeing good on duelling in 1v1 situations, but this has nothing to do with kite-able support-skills, that the Engi have.

hazzord wrote:I would like to be enlighten how to kite (to my understanding: to be able to do reasonable dps while keep the opponent on slow movement) with an:

1. 5f ragne sare-skill with an 10 sec duration - while the most mdps/tanks got the same range on snare-skills (IB/BO even more - 30f - )
2. 30f range root-skill with an 5sec duration - that will break to 50% if you damage the rooted opponant... (not kite to me)
3. a stagger-skill that break whitout delay while doing damage (not kite to me)
4. a 3 sec knockdown while maybe your landmine or any other player put the opponent on stun-immunity

I congratulate anyone for beeing good on duelling in 1v1 situations, but this has nothing to do with kite-able support-skills, that the Engi have.

Don't even bother, some people talk in this thread without even knowing what kiting is.

NSKaneda wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:That's called running away and surviving; not kiting. Kiting is being able to do effective damage while on the move - which an engineer and magus simply can't.

Right, because all your dots are there just for pretty pictures...


I'm sorry, I duelled as engie and against them, I've seen what the class can do. If Karast would say "engiez can't kite" I'd believe him simply because he's the best I've seen. Until that time I remain sceptical

DoT's & turrets break root & mine stagger. Also a melee slow doesn't help you kite melee dps who will just slow you right back. If they're kiting you using DoT's they can't CC you with mine & root. Do you not realise what you are comparing this to, a class with actual ranged slows who can RAGNED ATTACK WHILST MOVING with a ranged knockdown to boot.

1v1 doesn't mean **** and is probably the only situation where Engi can kite melee because it's **** 1v1. SW/SQ and BW/Sorc can kite in actual useful situations, SW/SQ because they can shoot & move and BW/sorc because they can set up their burst whilst moving and only be stationary for the big death tick (which takes like 1.5 seconds of standing still).

Earthpac wrote:DoT's & turrets break root & mine stagger. Also a melee slow doesn't help you kite melee dps who will just slow you right back. If they're kiting you using DoT's they can't CC you with mine & root. Do you not realise what you are comparing this to, a class with actual ranged slows who can RAGNED ATTACK WHILST MOVING with a ranged knockdown to boot.

Root, run away, call back turret, dot, dot, dot, burst or run, stun, run some more, call turret, dot, dot, burst, detaunt, run, snare+kb, run, call back turret, dot, dot, dot, napalm, mine, burst --> kiting.

And if you're in a party then after 1st stun I expect guard and at least one MDPS near me because, well, teamplay.

I'm not comparing Engies to BWs/Sorcs or SWs/SHs because engie/magi mechanic is completely different, their skills are different and their class gameplay is different. I'm comparing Engie to Magus. Only.