Return of Reckoning

Hardkoar wrote:

Spoiler:

Arbich wrote:

Hardkoar wrote: As stated many many times, the people that come to the forums are but a very small % of the player base, from this we can deduct that only a very small % of said player base is even aware that there is 1 (Read : ONE) rotating Sc used for solo play.

Here what reality looks like : Random jhon comes home from a long day at work, has dinner with his family, sits down to play for a couple of hours. Logs into the game, hits ''SIGN UP FOR ALL SCENARIOS'', not knowing that only one is for Pugs like him.
Jhonny spends the next 2 hours getting farmed by ''1337 h4k4z0rs'' .

You did a survey?

In my guild and alliance most people prefer to play together in a group with other people. I see that most people in this game are in a guild, so I assume they also have this attitude (why else they are in a guild?). I claim you are not the 90%, but the 10% (at most).

Separating Solo from groups for all Scenarios would only increase the queue-time. And you can actually beat most premades (premade= group of people queueing together , NOT necessary with a competitive mind set) with PuGs or at least give them a good fight.

Topic: What annoys me most, is when scenarios fills over time. Your team got slaughtered at the beginning and some people already gave up, then 4-5 new people join the scenario, but they don´t regain their fighting spirit.

And yet the only one's fearing an increase of Q time are ... drum roll ... the premades.

''But bruh, me and my guild...''

If 90% of the player base are premades than fear not my fellowman , you shall not have any issues with separated Queues, but we both know what the truth is . Hence why we should try to find a solution to please both parties, I am sure your guild and your allies enjoy a nice fight 6v6 rather than farming people at a resspad.
And please , lets kill the myth that some are trying to spread '' Pugs can defeat most premades '' ...
I am pretty sure the entire discussion has nothing to do with those ''lolmades'' , people are talking about the 500 - 0 getting camped by rr70+ players when you are lvl 31-39/fresh 40. Again, all I see is excuses made by those who enjoy free farm.

No competitive player would EVER think this is ok, fun or enjoyable, raiding old content would grant more of an entertainment.

Exactly. I dont get it. I mostly play solo. But when I do run in a premade, Im bored out of my mind when we win 500-0 and we camp them at spawn and Im bored out of my mind when i lose 500-0 and get camped. However it seems that most of the scs i play seem to be one of those two. I would loveeeeeee if Ishas was the only premade sc. It would pop so frequently. And a 6v6 of 2 premades is the most fun this game has to offer. Alot of the guys arguing here of premade background keep saying q times will be so long. It will only be so long if the majority of the people play solo! If not it should pop just as fast and since apparently MORE people play in groups, EVEN FASTER!

what i don't get is concept of 'getting farmed'.
how many RP/medals/emblems/seals have u drop? why are you even counting it?
why are you so afraid of enemies getting stronger? from there your mentality already lost.
if enemies were stronger accept defeat and die in a glorious battle. that's best way of defeat.
refusing to fight shows fear. fear of 'getting farmed'?
running from fight is worst way of defeat.
well, i admit it's one of strategy.
it should be absolute last measure.
cuz fear spreads like disease.
don't be the first one to run for life.

dying is like breathing, every second it happens in the war.
if you're afraid of breathing(dying), you don't deserve living(fighting).

we're not heroes, just mere foot soldiers. our death doesn't matter much. go fight, die and come back. get the 'farmer' idea out of your head, soldiers stop theorycrafting and imagining defeat.
poke enemies to reveal weak spots. join them and help it. or die trying.

@OP slayer is not good class for poking job.
order need more 'never give up' tanks.
how about enlist on IB ranks?

Toadwart wrote:

Eathisword wrote: Slayer is a premium example. Unless you are very good at it or play in a team designed for you, you will have 0 impact. Wasted space.

So when are slayers and choppas going to get some kind of balancing to turn this around?

Both classes are universally believed to be the worst in the game with the oddball guy saying, but they function ok in 6v6...the mode that doesnt exist.

No balancing needed. Slayer work as intended : they are god in group play. They do Humongous amount of damage and have good utility.

In any way, I said slayer cause that is what OP plays. Its the same for mostly all dps. Play tanks, play healer, cause they are the ones winning games. Then the problem disappears.

The game is simple : you have 2 support archetypes. THey can support eachother without dps, which they are not 100% reliant upon. DPS are 100% reliant on support.

So, wanna play a dps very badly ? Become a special snowflake that can convince a group to babysit you, cause that's what being a good dps mostly means. I remember on Badlands. LoB was king for a while. Their main deeps, Christalyst, said :''I am not a good player. I am good to sell myself, so I get the best groups. That is why i am the best slayer on the server.'' It is that simple, forget premade or not premade... To play dps well, you need to be good primarily at finding support. Rolling the dice every scen isn't being good. Its just being hopeful.

Wanna play scenario solo ? Play a support class. You'll have a lot more fun. Same goes for PuG warbands.

Eathisword wrote:

Toadwart wrote:

Eathisword wrote: Slayer is a premium example. Unless you are very good at it or play in a team designed for you, you will have 0 impact. Wasted space.

So when are slayers and choppas going to get some kind of balancing to turn this around?

Both classes are universally believed to be the worst in the game with the oddball guy saying, but they function ok in 6v6...the mode that doesnt exist.

No balancing needed. Slayer work as intended : they are god in group play. They do Humongous amount of damage and have good utility.

In any way, I said slayer cause that is what OP plays. Its the same for mostly all dps. Play tanks, play healer, cause they are the ones winning games. Then the problem disappears.

The game is simple : you have 2 support archetypes. THey can support eachother without dps, which they are not 100% reliant upon. DPS are 100% reliant on support.

So, wanna play a dps very badly ? Become a special snowflake that can convince a group to babysit you, cause that's what being a good dps mostly means. I remember on Badlands. LoB was king for a while. Their main deeps, Christalyst, said :''I am not a good player. I am good to sell myself, so I get the best groups. That is why i am the best slayer on the server.'' It is that simple, forget premade or not premade... To play dps well, you need to be good primarily at finding support. Rolling the dice every scen isn't being good. Its just being hopeful.

Wanna play scenario solo ? Play a support class. You'll have a lot more fun. Same goes for PuG warbands.

Using your own words, slayers/choppas will have zero impact in a pug, they are wasted space....yet they are gods in group play....the only class in the entire game that cannot function in a pug environment (your words) because thats how they were designed and its ok.

When 22 classes all can function in a pug environment and have impact yet 2 classes cannot...it is not OK.

Many things were designed in a way that wasnt healthy for the live game, I thought this version set out to correct them. Its disgusting to hear the "they need a group built around them" line like that makes it ok. 22 other classes do not need a group built around them.

Toadwart wrote: Using your own words, slayers/choppas will have zero impact in a pug, they are wasted space....yet they are gods in group play....the only class in the entire game that cannot function in a pug environment (your words) because thats how they were designed and its ok.

When 22 classes all can function in a pug environment and have impact yet 2 classes cannot...it is not OK.

Many things were designed in a way that wasnt healthy for the live game, I thought this version set out to correct them. Its disgusting to hear the "they need a group built around them" line like that makes it ok. 22 other classes do not need a group built around them.

Aside from WE/WH (in [solo]roam) there is not a single class that can even scratch its actual potential outside a group ~

On the Slayer thing: knowing how to position oneself and how to peel + when/how to pop SL/NS + popping GW on CD + snaring stuff if you have an opportunity, to help your squishies with the prekiting > else, if you manage that you can provide atleast <something>, most just suicide with the class - its not a design but a mentatlity/l2p issue.
Same goes for Choppa, you have the CD reduction to counteract SL, outside of that to help generate burst (may that be dps or heal) - learn when to pop it, and ofc the above. You don't have to throw yourself at a group of enemies, unguarded - those tools can be used in a hit-and-run manner (ofc you'll be caught eventually and 100-0 in a kd, but you atleast did something others could build upon).
Loldps tanks that don't use guard (which there are plently of, some of which not even run resis - or any - aura if they are kotbs) have even less impact, same goes for loldps healer or your run of the mill perma-magneting (=immunity gifting) engi - a SL/CH cannot become a detriment other than by playing like **** and dying 24/7 or gifting immunities with his 20s CD ST kd, unlike most classes with access to punts/roots.

You might want to define "functioning in a pug environment", and it better not boils down to <simply> surviving or scoring your occassional deathblow on a sub40 squish or revolves around facing objectively garbage-tier players*.
Abbd.: *Given that there is a chance you'll end up queueing into a pug(only) SC filled to the brim with solo queueing members of various (read: diffrent) premades that manage to assist on the fly and show their A-game.
I'll take an unguared, sub40s Slayer in greens that hits like a wetnoodle, but gets his SL to land over a perma-magnetting; immunity dispensing, BiS engi; a wannabe-melee, fireclown using his root on cooldown - while, you can imagine: miserably failing to kite -; a loldps or maybe even one of those rare, actually healing AMs slotting the shittier range knockback, who makes it impossible to strip guard of some glass mdps or your occassional mdps DoK, allowing the deeps to maul my entire backline uncontested.

Last but not least:
Premade != elitism, any kind of group; any kind of format > pug. There is a reason a couple of duo's rule the pug(only) scs...
Keep playing together, eventually become better individually and collectively and take on better premades or try to zergbust = win the game. Its a no brainer that sitting in(front of) a spawn for 15min isn't particularly entertaining for anyone ~

Abbd.:
If this pugging issue is not taken for what it is - a pugging issue - it will devolve into a 'balance' issue, with everyone and their grandparents issuesing complaints based on dice rolls (matchmaking) and poor play (utter lack knowledge about to very basic how-tos and mechanics).

E: words, its late. .-.

This is a heavily group based game more so then other games. There are other games that tailor to pug play better. Go play those games. Don't ask for pug play changes on a game that is heavily based on group play. The Strength of this game is on it's group based play not pug play.

footpatrol2 wrote:This is a heavily group based game more so then other games. There are other games that tailor to pug play better. Go play those games. Don't ask for pug play changes on a game that is heavily based on group play. The Strength of this game is on it's group based play not pug play.

Its so heavily group based that Public Quests (by far the largest dedicated portion of the game world) were designed for anyone to walk in solo, fight next to others and leave when they wished to. ie, solo play.

Pug scenarios were a design point on live as well. In fact, if activities were specifically designed for groups, you would need a group to be able to enter them...and you dont. They accommodate groups, they were not designed to require groups.

Toadwart wrote:

footpatrol2 wrote:This is a heavily group based game more so then other games. There are other games that tailor to pug play better. Go play those games. Don't ask for pug play changes on a game that is heavily based on group play. The Strength of this game is on it's group based play not pug play.

Its so heavily group based that Public Quests (by far the largest dedicated portion of the game world) were designed for anyone to walk in solo, fight next to others and leave when they wished to. ie, solo play.

Pug scenarios were a design point on live as well. In fact, if activities were specifically designed for groups, you would need a group to be able to enter them...and you dont. They accommodate groups, they were not designed to require groups.

At launch PQ's actually had Hero or Lord level bosses that required tons of players working together, dedicated double cross-guarded tanks and healers to hold aggro, with PvE tactics to boot, in order to complete them.

The RoR implementation is based moreso in nostalgia, and most PQ's have at best a single champion in the lower levels as a boss. Largely because the population is not being driven to them as a source for optimal looting. None of the PQ bosses, outside of what's being worked on for Onslaught, have any abilities aside from auto attacks.

I do worry about this "if you pug dont play our game" mentality.

There is a danger of driving off players and the playerbase isnt all that big, especialy during NA hours.

FFS quit derailing the poor OPs post and whine somewhere else.