[SM] Phantom's Blade

[peterthepan3]

Far too potent: a Khaine SM could easily enchantment dance, maintain 10% of X if needed, go back to stat steal. Yes, lots of micromanagement, but incredibly potent.

5 second duration could alleviate that somewhat.

In regards to OP: is current absorb underperforming? Would it be considered sufficient if it, as per this proposal, affected group members (naturally we don't want a superstrong ST bubble affecting group members, for reasons Aura has already listed).

[Methryel]

PoH give bubbles for the group (max 825 or something closed).it's a good ability.
Did it make the group really that much stronger ,did it disrupt the game? No.

Share the bubbles is a good Idea but if the absorb is lower than PoH , nobody will use it.
Vaul's tree is almost a dead tree, improve PB is a step un the right direction .

[Aurandilaz]

Far too potent: a Khaine SM could easily enchantment dance, maintain 10% of X if needed, go back to stat steal. Yes, lots of micromanagement, but incredibly potent.

5 second duration could alleviate that somewhat.

In regards to OP: is current absorb underperforming? Would it be considered sufficient if it, as per this proposal, affected group members (naturally we don't want a superstrong ST bubble affecting group members, for reasons Aura has already listed).

Well, wouldn't you ideally be "stance dancing" like a marauder/SW assuming the Blades become truly equally useful albeit for different situations. Heavens Blade is atm hopeless, Natures is kinda must and Phantom is a mystery pick. Assuming well balanced class, a SM could probably switch Blades for different situations, say Natures for offensive gameplay, Phantoms for defensive gameplay and Heavens for magic stuff - with the class actually being able to somehow transition on the move from a deadly offensive Swordmaster to a defensive Swordmaster by changing their blade type, akin to mara/SW, widening the potential of the class to something else than pure 2hander dpstank that spams BS and screams "guard me" in sc chat.

Regarding possible ICDs and buff durations, if the effect lasted only 5 sec, ICD of 1 sec is enough. Or if 10 sec, then maybe 3 sec ICD. So that if you are randomly buffing 6-8 different things, only ~3-4 would be up at same time, and assuming enough randomness, you would have hard time or need excellent luck to get the most desired buff that the situation at hand mostly needs.

going off-tangent here but;
Another problem that I see with "defensive" SM is that all the Blades require you to hit the enemy to get them to proc. But if you are playing tank, kiting and retreating, good luck hitting stuff - somewhat impossible if you are being pursued by rdps. Which is why they have WoDS I guess, which however means that they kinda reliant on 2hander which in turn makes midtree with their Block stuff and other mildly tankish-stuff "meh". Which then leads to the mystery of there being no Shieldmasters but tons of 2handers. One possibility would be to allow WoDs to be used without 2hander requirement but I guess that might be topic for some other time. (but considering sorry state of the class and how good Kotb and IB are in comparison as TANKS, not sure if SnB WoDS would alleviate the wider issues much)

[Ramasee]

Bubble work pre crits so vs classes that work with crits aka sorc/bw they are very good as they negate 3x their value.

Stat steal while strong is rng and have not 100% update time on what buff.
Any buff to any xxx blade mastery buff should follow this line imo,when you can remove as said 100% of the time the best raw DD in game on oppo realm (sorc).
If absorb bubble is made group wide what it need is a ICD which give a max of 50% update time the value can be adjusted later on.

I was here on ror originally against it because it can pretty much became a 4th party's kobs aura...unless it get as i say an ICD and.a 50% updatetime.

Phantom's Blade has only one buff instead of 7 like nature's blade, doesn't provide debuffs. Phantom's blade cannot be refreshed while the absorb is active, but has no ICD. So whenever the absorb drops either by taking the extent of its damage or the end of the duration, that is when it can be reapplied. This is triggered by a 25% chance on hit. This means that it will not have a 100% uptime under most circumstances.

Without ether dance, a swordmaster will usually hit a target 6x in 4.5s. (2x auto attacks, 2x 1 hit ability, 1x 2 hit ability) 6 hits gives you an 82% to proc a blade enchant. Ether dance is 9 hits in 6s (2x auto attacks, 2x 1 hit ability, 1x 5hit ability) which is a 92.5% chance to proc.

Far too potent: a Khaine SM could easily enchantment dance, maintain 10% of X if needed, go back to stat steal. Yes, lots of micromanagement, but incredibly potent.

5 second duration could alleviate that somewhat.

In regards to OP: is current absorb underperforming? Would it be considered sufficient if it, as per this proposal, affected group members (naturally we don't want a superstrong ST bubble affecting group members, for reasons Aura has already listed).

The 55ap cost of per cast of a blade enchant would likely be enough to keep anyone from stance dancing mid combat. Personally, I only ever switch on rare occasion mid fight and that's when im pugging, all healers die, and there's only one enemy left. I know that part of your post was towards Aura's 10% to different defensive procs idea.

At 15 points in vaul, the absorb is 487. The absorb is viable for yourself when stacked with other absorbs (vaul's buffer, PoH) and having high amounts of toughness. But this self survivability is not much better than stealing 75 offensive stat, 75 init, and 75 toughness that nature's blade (with no points in khaine) would get you. And nature's blade helps out the party offensively and defensively. Most of your party is not going to have the toughness to make the absorb mitigate more than half a hit. (Might give you a reason to cast our 'unique' m1, but I doubt it)

I think as I originally proposed, share with group, nerf duration to 5s, with no change in potency is a good start towards balancing the blade enchant with little risk of being unintentionally over-powered.

[Methryel]

Bubble work pre crits so vs classes that work with crits aka sorc/bw they are very good as they negate 3x their value.

Stat steal while strong is rng and have not 100% update time on what buff.
Any buff to any xxx blade mastery buff should follow this line imo,when you can remove as said 100% of the time the best raw DD in game on oppo realm (sorc).
If absorb bubble is made group wide what it need is a ICD which give a max of 50% update time the value can be adjusted later on.

I was here on ror originally against it because it can pretty much became a 4th party's kobs aura...unless it get as i say an ICD and.a 50% updatetime.

Phantom's Blade has only one buff instead of 7 like nature's blade, doesn't provide debuffs. Phantom's blade cannot be refreshed while the absorb is active, but has no ICD. So whenever the absorb drops either by taking the extent of its damage or the end of the duration, that is when it can be reapplied. This is triggered by a 25% chance on hit. This means that it will not have a 100% uptime under most circumstances.

Without ether dance, a swordmaster will usually hit a target 6x in 4.5s. (2x auto attacks, 2x 1 hit ability, 1x 2 hit ability) 6 hits gives you an 82% to proc a blade enchant. Ether dance is 9 hits in 6s (2x auto attacks, 2x 1 hit ability, 1x 5hit ability) which is a 92.5% chance to proc.

Far too potent: a Khaine SM could easily enchantment dance, maintain 10% of X if needed, go back to stat steal. Yes, lots of micromanagement, but incredibly potent.

5 second duration could alleviate that somewhat.

In regards to OP: is current absorb underperforming? Would it be considered sufficient if it, as per this proposal, affected group members (naturally we don't want a superstrong ST bubble affecting group members, for reasons Aura has already listed).

The 55ap cost of per cast of a blade enchant would likely be enough to keep anyone from stance dancing mid combat. Personally, I only ever switch on rare occasion mid fight and that's when im pugging, all healers die, and there's only one enemy left. I know that part of your post was towards Aura's 10% to different defensive procs idea.

At 15 points in vaul, the absorb is 487. The absorb is viable for yourself when stacked with other absorbs (vaul's buffer, PoH) and having high amounts of toughness. But this self survivability is not much better than stealing 75 offensive stat, 75 init, and 75 toughness that nature's blade (with no points in khaine) would get you. And nature's blade helps out the party offensively and defensively. Most of your party is not going to have the toughness to make the absorb mitigate more than half a hit. (Might give you a reason to cast our 'unique' m1, but I doubt it)

I think as I originally proposed, share with group, nerf duration to 5s, with no change in potency is a good start towards balancing the blade enchant with little risk of being unintentionally over-powered.

If you don't change the potency of PB. This will be a little better than now but nobody will use it because PoH will still be much better. I think it would need the same potency than PoH, then maybe some players will play with it

[Methryel]

Bubble work pre crits so vs classes that work with crits aka sorc/bw they are very good as they negate 3x their value.

Stat steal while strong is rng and have not 100% update time on what buff.
Any buff to any xxx blade mastery buff should follow this line imo,when you can remove as said 100% of the time the best raw DD in game on oppo realm (sorc).
If absorb bubble is made group wide what it need is a ICD which give a max of 50% update time the value can be adjusted later on.

I was here on ror originally against it because it can pretty much became a 4th party's kobs aura...unless it get as i say an ICD and.a 50% updatetime.

Phantom's Blade has only one buff instead of 7 like nature's blade, doesn't provide debuffs. Phantom's blade cannot be refreshed while the absorb is active, but has no ICD. So whenever the absorb drops either by taking the extent of its damage or the end of the duration, that is when it can be reapplied. This is triggered by a 25% chance on hit. This means that it will not have a 100% uptime under most circumstances.

Without ether dance, a swordmaster will usually hit a target 6x in 4.5s. (2x auto attacks, 2x 1 hit ability, 1x 2 hit ability) 6 hits gives you an 82% to proc a blade enchant. Ether dance is 9 hits in 6s (2x auto attacks, 2x 1 hit ability, 1x 5hit ability) which is a 92.5% chance to proc.

Far too potent: a Khaine SM could easily enchantment dance, maintain 10% of X if needed, go back to stat steal. Yes, lots of micromanagement, but incredibly potent.

5 second duration could alleviate that somewhat.

In regards to OP: is current absorb underperforming? Would it be considered sufficient if it, as per this proposal, affected group members (naturally we don't want a superstrong ST bubble affecting group members, for reasons Aura has already listed).

The 55ap cost of per cast of a blade enchant would likely be enough to keep anyone from stance dancing mid combat. Personally, I only ever switch on rare occasion mid fight and that's when im pugging, all healers die, and there's only one enemy left. I know that part of your post was towards Aura's 10% to different defensive procs idea.

At 15 points in vaul, the absorb is 487. The absorb is viable for yourself when stacked with other absorbs (vaul's buffer, PoH) and having high amounts of toughness. But this self survivability is not much better than stealing 75 offensive stat, 75 init, and 75 toughness that nature's blade (with no points in khaine) would get you. And nature's blade helps out the party offensively and defensively. Most of your party is not going to have the toughness to make the absorb mitigate more than half a hit. (Might give you a reason to cast our 'unique' m1, but I doubt it)

I think as I originally proposed, share with group, nerf duration to 5s, with no change in potency is a good start towards balancing the blade enchant with little risk of being unintentionally over-powered.

If you don't change the potency of PB. This will be a little better than now but nobody will use it because PoH will still be much better. I think it would need the same potency than PoH, then maybe some players will play with it

[Ramasee]

If you don't change the potency of PB. This will be a little better than now but nobody will use it because PoH will still be much better. I think it would need the same potency than PoH, then maybe some players will play with it

Done.

PoH starts at 715 (because on 9pt in hoeth) and has a 10s cd. PB starts at 325 with no points in vaul with no cooldown also has a really high chance to proc twice in 10s, with lower chances to proc three or four times. 9 points in vaul will put PB to ~422 which x2 is 844. 844 > 715. No potency change is needed to accomplish what it is you repeatedly have asked. (4pts in vaul gets you 357 which equals PoH assuming only 2 procs)

Now PoH can benefit from WW, but PB can proc more than 2x in a 10s window.

[Methryel]

If you don't change the potency of PB. This will be a little better than now but nobody will use it because PoH will still be much better. I think it would need the same potency than PoH, then maybe some players will play with it

Done.

PoH starts at 715 (because on 9pt in hoeth) and has a 10s cd. PB starts at 325 with no points in vaul with no cooldown also has a really high chance to proc twice in 10s, with lower chances to proc three or four times. 9 points in vaul will put PB to ~422 which x2 is 844. 844 > 715. No potency change is needed to accomplish what it is you repeatedly have asked. (4pts in vaul gets you 357 which equals PoH assuming only 2 procs)

Now PoH can benefit from WW, but PB can proc more than 2x in a 10s window.

1)You don't choose when PB triggers and you need to hit.
2) you lose nature blades.

So , do you really think people will take PB if the bubbles are so low?

[Mystry]

Personally I'm nearly always in favor of increasing absorb amounts seeing as how they don't take resistances or armor into account, and damage values are absolutely massive in this game.

[Ramasee]

Do I think that people will consistently take PB over nature's blade? Nope. I am also not trying to make phantom's blade the new go-to blade enchantment. I am trying make phantom's blade a viable alternative when you do not need nature's blade or your party just wants more survivability.

Almost doubling the potency of the blade enchantment is likely to make it just too good, given the possibility of spamming it with a string of procs. Also, PoH is often used as a balance change with no target, or used on cooldown in heavy combat. And PoH and PB stack, FiFo.

It might need a potency increase; I'm not keeping that out of the realm of possibility. Change the targets from self to group, see what players try out and monitor its effectiveness/usefulness. Then change the potency if it needs it.