Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

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cseho
Posts: 7

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#61 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:27 am

I think they easiest way to fix this is to make it possible to spend your rr points to disrupt,parry,doge strikethrough.

You can stack defensice stats like crazy with renown points. Reflexes and Deft defender are super effective and cheap so why cant you counter them?

2 - 5
3 - 10
4 - 15
5 - 15

14 strikethrough for 45 points would be a fair trade. Maybe can be boosted later if it doesnt cut it.

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Cimba
Posts: 295

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#62 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:35 am

Aurandilaz wrote:lets assume:
target has 50% disrupt, from good Willpower because healer or halfdecent tank who knows where the button for HTL is:
attacker has softcap int plus best gear, gaining around +50% strikethrough, then you add +10% from staff.
So values of RNG between 1 to 50 cause disrupt, values between 51 to 160 mean hit, ~68% chance to hit, 32% effective disrupt.
Without staff disrupt-strikethrough, 1 to 50 disrupted, 51 to 150 hit; 66% chance to hit 33% disrupt.
0.6875/0.6666= real "buff" gain is 3.1% increased dmg output from slightly lesser disrupt.

Lets say we went with staff giving +15% strikethrough against disrupt:

1 to 50, disrupted. 51 to 165, hit. 30.3% disrupt, 69.6% hit. Effective "buff" is 4.5% (compared to previous/current). Far from gamebreaking, but might make life less frustrating from magical caster POV.


Please feel free to correct my numbers, or say if I'm completely wrong with how current defensive mechanics are calculated.
Based on this post I believe percentaged based strike through direclty opposes the disrupt stats.

So the numbers would 50 (Disrupt) - 10 (Staff) - 10 (Gear) = 30 --> 30/(100+40) --> 21.4% disrupt rate

Without added strike through from staff: 40/140 = 28.5%. Meaning at 1050 Int a 10% disrupt strike throuh would add about 7% in effective disrupt strike through.
krautcontrol

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1675

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#63 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:53 pm

Well that makes more sense to be honest.


So what if we had this kind of "fix":

Staff: 5% all strikethroughs: Disrupt/Parry/Block/Dodge (relatively minor, but helps if you ever go into close range, and helps against Block maximizing tanks, though not a major buff)

Taunt: -10% Disrupt debuff, hit attacker 3 times to remove. So basically if defender knows what they doing and knows source of taunt, about 3.6 seconds, less assuming lucky AA hits and taunter being close by, or maybe even less if taunter has been pre-dotted by victim.
Or if codeable, because Taunt "stacks 3 times", have each layer of taunt only count as -3% disrupt reduction (would -4% be OP? or not?), so that initial taunt reduces -9%, after first hit is landed on taunter, down to -6, and before last taunt is removed, down to -3. (or -12/-8/-4?)


Alternatively, there are lot of Parry/Dodge/Block debuffs, but very few Disrupt debuffs, that would actually hurt Disrupt instead of mildly debuffing willpower, many of those could be added to also debuff disrupt.


Anyway, back to OPs suggestion, the problem is not just about ST BW/Sorc, its also about aoe BW/Sorc, but also about basically all magical casting (AM, shaman, Magus, RP, zealot) in current state of game being quite impotent against any enemy that prepares high disrupt and effectively forces attacker to rethink whether to play magical caster in first place, or switching to physical (whether ranged or melee) to become more effective at countering any proper enemy that has cleanse, Kotb/Chosen Resist auras and HoldTheLine.
7 out of 24 classes deal magical dmg, and the solution to current ST BW/Sorc issues should also somehow help the other 5, lest they fall too far behind from being "effective dps" against any organized enemy force.

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Haojin
Posts: 945

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#64 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Make HTL neglect the dodge/distrupt buff: profit. same like kotbs/chosen aura.

%15 X 3 buff for friendly targets , -%15 X 3 distrupt/dodge debuff for enemy targets.

if you want to buff your friends, stay in the frontline and buff your allies in a normal way :
[buffing] o - > combat < - o [buffing]

if you want to debuff the targets turn towards to your enemy -sounds funny eh ?- and debuff them. big risk big reward. you will lose htl buff and personal block/parry cause of the formation.

o - < combat < - o [debuffed] [buffing]

or push deeper to debuff targets for rdps bombers. options are limitless.
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Pacso
Posts: 40

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#65 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:02 pm

Haojin wrote:Make HTL neglect the dodge/distrupt buff: profit. same like kotbs/chosen aura.

%15 X 3 buff for friendly targets , -%15 X 3 distrupt/dodge debuff for enemy targets.

if you want to buff your friends, stay in the frontline and buff your allies in a normal way :
[buffing] o - > combat < - o [buffing]

if you want to debuff the targets turn towards to your enemy -sounds funny eh ?- and debuff them. big risk big reward. you will lose htl buff and personal block/parry cause of the formation.

o - < combat < - o [debuffed] [buffing]

or push deeper to debuff targets for rdps bombers. options are limitless.
And rename the skill: "Push the line!"
Zzharg Madeye

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Dekata
Posts: 15

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#66 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:54 am

Spoiler:
You really think, that devs cares about BWs and especially Sorc's problems? Last is worst class utility for party and wb and waste slot for premades with permanent disrupts even with -12% disrupts from gear. Better up some another classes as engi, wl, sm or kotbs. ;)
Read the BDF rules.
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Reesh
Posts: 641

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#67 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:30 pm

Spoiler:
Dekata wrote:You really think, that devs cares about BWs and especially Sorc's problems? Last is worst class utility for party and wb and waste slot for premades with permanent disrupts even with -12% disrupts from gear. Better up some another classes as engi, wl, sm or kotbs. ;)
Then you say, it's just better to get into balance thread, **** talk in it with a QQ factor, instead of providing valid ideas to make the situation better?
If that's how you operate, then okay.

I think we need to get back on track with being a lot more specific into the classes themselves, as thread went into a lot wider balancing aspect.
Don't reply to people who break the rules, wait for moderation.
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balls
Posts: 33

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#68 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:51 pm

Make Meltdown/Dhar Wind grant Disrupt strikethrough equal to the amount of mechanic spent for 3-5s.

EDIT: Obviously while still granting the mechanical bonus/drawback for this duration (crit, crit dmg, backlash).

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shaggyboomboom
Posts: 1230

Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#69 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:42 pm

Bozzax wrote: 3. Dps AM could actually come out stronger then before because of CW removal and lots of strikethrough
Trust me, they are not. Had run DPS AM for a couple of weeks and trust me, it's really not like you'd think. Mostly used only DO, but also IC sometimes and still I felt like I needed more disrupt strike through. I did run only 850-920 INT but still, having 25 disrupt strike through AND still getting more than a few disrupts is really annoying.
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Tesq
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Re: Improving the ST of BW/Sorc.

Post#70 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:35 pm

Penril wrote:I like the direction this thread is taking. Sorc/BWs are still awesome for killing pugs, but if you want to be effective against premades then maybe you should rely more on your own premade. That Taunt buff is a nice example.

There are a few skills like Furious Howl, Drop da Basha, Numbing Strike, Pierce Defenses, Warding Strike, etc. that could maybe be changed to also affect Disrupt. So a Sorc/BW premade could spec around Disrupt debuffs. This would reward preparation, group-play and is imho much more interesting than just "give staff +10 Disrupt strikethrough".

Have to disagree, first thing even while pugging, hit an healer can be extremly hard.

Second the problem as above is especially vs healers. Not vs all exept in hold the line situation
Which of a 10% striketrought wont solve tought soft.

Also link a debuff to taunt wont solve the problem for aoe skll. Which is of course where more disrupt is happening and where bw/sorc are generaly frontliners (trade off) and not in sc / small scale.If you have to solve a "general" problem solve it generaly and not only in some situation.

The rpds problem shooting from afar we have which partially lead to the avoidance changes(?) Was st focus problem not aoe because aoe require you to be near. So basically re-allow the st skills only to burst ppl down from afar dosent feel the best idea ever. Especially if you are only going to give "basic" tools only to a restric kind of player
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