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[Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

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Foofmonger
Posts: 195

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#121 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:42 pm

R3xz wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:37 pm
^Isn't the morale stopper only a 10% chance to proc? Based on patch notes.

Thanks for the writeup btw, this is why I much prefer to discuss balance and class changes with numbers. Objective statements with empirical elements are less likely to spark emotional and subjective backlashes, and if it doesn't add up, someone will point out the problem in the equation.
You're correct. I'll go back and edit the post to reflect that for accuracy, give me a moment.

Edit: It's updated. I also fixed the analysis a little and made it more comprehensive.

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R3xz
Posts: 103

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#122 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:54 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:17 pm
R3xz wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:43 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:05 pm
I did a bunch of dummy testing earlier in the week but I didn't record all the numbers down. What do you want to see? Before/After damage numbers?
That could be a good start. How about morale drain proc/stoppage uptime now compare to how it used to be.

People complain nerf, well how much was it nerfed by? What are the parameters we need to look at to judge the nerf on an objective basis?

The damage buff is pretty straight forward to test out, but the morale drain change isn't, but I'm sure we can crunch some numbers at least theoretically.

I was hoping that the thread would answer some of these questions and conclusions can be made based on the numbers, not just feelings.
Spoiler:
So sure, assuming everything works this isn't too hard.

Old Morale Drain: 25% chance on hit to remove 225 morale.
Old Morale Prevent: 100% chance to prevent morale for 5 seconds, every 10 seconds (50% uptime, but it didn't work).

New Morale Drain: 100% chance to remove 225 morale, once every 10 seconds.
New Morale Prevent: 10% chance on hit to prevent enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds.

Old State: You can drain morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for ease of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 25% chance every 1.5 seconds to remove 225 morale from X people that you hit. This means on average, to remove morale from a person (by demo spamming) you will remove 225 morale every 6 seconds from an individual target (4x Demolitions). The morale prevent didn't work, so you couldn't prevent morale.

New State: You can prevent morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for each of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 10% chance every 1.5 seconds to prevent the enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds. This means on average, to prevent morale gain on a person (by demo spamming) you will proc the 5 second morale prevention, every 15 seconds on an individual target (10x Demolitions). The morale drain now drains 225 morale (guaranteed), once every 10 seconds (no average).

Summary (using Demo Spam):

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

NEW: 225 Morale Drained every 10 seconds - guaranteed (will not fluctuate). Morale generation prevented every 5 out of 15 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

Morale drain is nerfed (and I used demo), by at least 40%. In cases where you are using wrecking ball, it's nerfed quite more heavily. You will drain a considerable less morale then you used to. However, your morale drain is now on demand and reliable, and you will always drain 225 every 10 seconds (as long as you hit WoT when its cooldown is up)

Morale prevent is massively increased, by it's entirety because it didn't work. Now you can theoretically prevent groups from gaining morale for rougly about 33% uptime, which will effectively reduce their overall morale gain by that same percentage (could be higher or lower depending on procs, as well as using wrecking ball which ups the prercnt to proc signifcantly)

TOTALS:

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 sections on individual targets on average (using demo spam). Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 2,250 Morale

NEW: 225 Morale drained every 10 seconds on individual targets (guaranteed with WoT). 33% average uptime on morale prevention. Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 1,350 morale, and stop the enemy from generating morale for 20 out of those 60 seconds (33% reduction in morale generation).

DIFFERENCE:

The Marauder has a net difference of 900 morale drained as the "nerf" over the average course of 1 minute (depending on wreckinball use will change this number). However, the Marauder also gains 20 seconds of that minute of preventing any morale gain. Therefore, if Order's Morale generation is higher than 900 over a course of 20 seconds, this change is actually a buff. If Orders Morale generation is lower than 900 of a course of 20 seconds, this change is a nerf. The actual amount of difference would indicate how large that nerf or buff is. For instance, if the Order is only generating 600 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale nerf. If Order is generating 1200 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale buff.

TLDR: Morale drain still works. It's more of a functionality change than a nerf, but also now requires a specific spec (Brut/Monstro), so thats a nerf in terms of overall viability (you can't really go Sav/Monstro anymore and do the AP drain and the morale drain at the same time). As per the actual amount of morale usage prevented, this could actually be a buff for Marauder, but it's variable based on how much morale the Order you are fighting is capable of generating. This change actually makes fighting against stronger groups who optimize their morale gain better, whereas it's more a nerf versus unoptimized Order players who are not maximizing their morale gain.
Pretty solid analysis, thanks again.

Would you say now that having multiple marauders be more viable than it was prior? Keeping in mind not just the morale drain/stoppage, but also if their dps buff was of any considerable value to warrant a change to a typical meta WB setup. I'm now more curious about your conclusion put into practice, because if the damage buff isn't substancial, given the morale drain nerf, the worry would be a nerf to how destro WB perform overall compare to prior. (I think this is what many people were worried about when this change took place)

Foofmonger
Posts: 195

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#123 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:02 am

R3xz wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:54 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:17 pm
R3xz wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:43 pm


That could be a good start. How about morale drain proc/stoppage uptime now compare to how it used to be.

People complain nerf, well how much was it nerfed by? What are the parameters we need to look at to judge the nerf on an objective basis?

The damage buff is pretty straight forward to test out, but the morale drain change isn't, but I'm sure we can crunch some numbers at least theoretically.

I was hoping that the thread would answer some of these questions and conclusions can be made based on the numbers, not just feelings.
Spoiler:
So sure, assuming everything works this isn't too hard.

Old Morale Drain: 25% chance on hit to remove 225 morale.
Old Morale Prevent: 100% chance to prevent morale for 5 seconds, every 10 seconds (50% uptime, but it didn't work).

New Morale Drain: 100% chance to remove 225 morale, once every 10 seconds.
New Morale Prevent: 10% chance on hit to prevent enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds.

Old State: You can drain morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for ease of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 25% chance every 1.5 seconds to remove 225 morale from X people that you hit. This means on average, to remove morale from a person (by demo spamming) you will remove 225 morale every 6 seconds from an individual target (4x Demolitions). The morale prevent didn't work, so you couldn't prevent morale.

New State: You can prevent morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for each of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 10% chance every 1.5 seconds to prevent the enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds. This means on average, to prevent morale gain on a person (by demo spamming) you will proc the 5 second morale prevention, every 15 seconds on an individual target (10x Demolitions). The morale drain now drains 225 morale (guaranteed), once every 10 seconds (no average).

Summary (using Demo Spam):

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

NEW: 225 Morale Drained every 10 seconds - guaranteed (will not fluctuate). Morale generation prevented every 5 out of 15 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

Morale drain is nerfed (and I used demo), by at least 40%. In cases where you are using wrecking ball, it's nerfed quite more heavily. You will drain a considerable less morale then you used to. However, your morale drain is now on demand and reliable, and you will always drain 225 every 10 seconds (as long as you hit WoT when its cooldown is up)

Morale prevent is massively increased, by it's entirety because it didn't work. Now you can theoretically prevent groups from gaining morale for rougly about 33% uptime, which will effectively reduce their overall morale gain by that same percentage (could be higher or lower depending on procs, as well as using wrecking ball which ups the prercnt to proc signifcantly)

TOTALS:

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 sections on individual targets on average (using demo spam). Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 2,250 Morale

NEW: 225 Morale drained every 10 seconds on individual targets (guaranteed with WoT). 33% average uptime on morale prevention. Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 1,350 morale, and stop the enemy from generating morale for 20 out of those 60 seconds (33% reduction in morale generation).

DIFFERENCE:

The Marauder has a net difference of 900 morale drained as the "nerf" over the average course of 1 minute (depending on wreckinball use will change this number). However, the Marauder also gains 20 seconds of that minute of preventing any morale gain. Therefore, if Order's Morale generation is higher than 900 over a course of 20 seconds, this change is actually a buff. If Orders Morale generation is lower than 900 of a course of 20 seconds, this change is a nerf. The actual amount of difference would indicate how large that nerf or buff is. For instance, if the Order is only generating 600 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale nerf. If Order is generating 1200 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale buff.

TLDR: Morale drain still works. It's more of a functionality change than a nerf, but also now requires a specific spec (Brut/Monstro), so thats a nerf in terms of overall viability (you can't really go Sav/Monstro anymore and do the AP drain and the morale drain at the same time). As per the actual amount of morale usage prevented, this could actually be a buff for Marauder, but it's variable based on how much morale the Order you are fighting is capable of generating. This change actually makes fighting against stronger groups who optimize their morale gain better, whereas it's more a nerf versus unoptimized Order players who are not maximizing their morale gain.
Pretty solid analysis, thanks again.

Would you say now that having multiple marauders be more viable than it was prior? Keeping in mind not just the morale drain/stoppage, but also if their dps buff was of any considerable value to warrant a change to a typical meta WB setup. I'm now more curious about your conclusion put into practice, because if the damage buff isn't substancial, given the morale drain nerf, the worry would be a nerf to how destro WB perform overall compare to prior. (I think this is what many people were worried about when this change took place)
Its different but probably still viable. Seemed to work well in the fort defense earlier. The overall morale drain is down like I showed above (and I wasn't personally running the blocker tactic), but Wave of Terrors 40 ft range is something to note, as it's a bit easier to hit more/further away targets to drain. Also you can get some drain without having to run a tactic, which is another buff/perk.'

Also natural synergy with cooldown reducers doubles your drain, and its "controllable/predictable". So if you want to drain a lot, you can have a choppa or whatever get you to 225 morale drained every 5 seconds.

The AP drain/Morale drain spec is basically dead though, you have to pick one or the other. You can do the blocker/ap drain spec, which I haven't tried, which may still work though.

worship
Posts: 29

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#124 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:53 am

Hi,

Haven't found any posts on the dps increase through the 13 pages of the thread...

Could someone share any figures or at least impressions in general about the dps increase? Is it significant during the fight?
I used to run Sav/Brut, and if the buff is noticeable, i'd like to return to my beloved Mara.

Thanks!

User avatar
palindrom
Posts: 9

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#125 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:17 am

worship wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:53 am
Hi,

Haven't found any posts on the dps increase through the 13 pages of the thread...

Could someone share any figures or at least impressions in general about the dps increase? Is it significant during the fight?
I used to run Sav/Brut, and if the buff is noticeable, i'd like to return to my beloved Mara.

Thanks!
5-20% depends on gears(softcapped str), flanking+MA, how often you crit and what target(robe/light armours after CC)
Shaqattak - Marauder 80+

Bohavwn
Posts: 16

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#126 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:34 am

Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:17 pm
R3xz wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:43 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:05 pm
I did a bunch of dummy testing earlier in the week but I didn't record all the numbers down. What do you want to see? Before/After damage numbers?
That could be a good start. How about morale drain proc/stoppage uptime now compare to how it used to be.

People complain nerf, well how much was it nerfed by? What are the parameters we need to look at to judge the nerf on an objective basis?

The damage buff is pretty straight forward to test out, but the morale drain change isn't, but I'm sure we can crunch some numbers at least theoretically.

I was hoping that the thread would answer some of these questions and conclusions can be made based on the numbers, not just feelings.
So sure, assuming everything works this isn't too hard.

Old Morale Drain: 25% chance on hit to remove 225 morale.
Old Morale Prevent: 100% chance to prevent morale for 5 seconds, every 10 seconds (50% uptime, but it didn't work).

New Morale Drain: 100% chance to remove 225 morale, once every 10 seconds.
New Morale Prevent: 10% chance on hit to prevent enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds.

Old State: You can drain morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for ease of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 25% chance every 1.5 seconds to remove 225 morale from X people that you hit. This means on average, to remove morale from a person (by demo spamming) you will remove 225 morale every 6 seconds from an individual target (4x Demolitions). The morale prevent didn't work, so you couldn't prevent morale.

New State: You can prevent morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for each of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 10% chance every 1.5 seconds to prevent the enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds. This means on average, to prevent morale gain on a person (by demo spamming) you will proc the 5 second morale prevention, every 15 seconds on an individual target (10x Demolitions). The morale drain now drains 225 morale (guaranteed), once every 10 seconds (no average).

Summary (using Demo Spam):

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

NEW: 225 Morale Drained every 10 seconds - guaranteed (will not fluctuate). Morale generation prevented every 5 out of 15 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

Morale drain is nerfed (and I used demo), by at least 40%. In cases where you are using wrecking ball, it's nerfed quite more heavily. You will drain a considerable less morale then you used to. However, your morale drain is now on demand and reliable, and you will always drain 225 every 10 seconds (as long as you hit WoT when its cooldown is up)

Morale prevent is massively increased, by it's entirety because it didn't work. Now you can theoretically prevent groups from gaining morale for rougly about 33% uptime, which will effectively reduce their overall morale gain by that same percentage (could be higher or lower depending on procs, as well as using wrecking ball which ups the prercnt to proc signifcantly)

TOTALS:

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 sections on individual targets on average (using demo spam). Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 2,250 Morale

NEW: 225 Morale drained every 10 seconds on individual targets (guaranteed with WoT). 33% average uptime on morale prevention. Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 1,350 morale, and stop the enemy from generating morale for 20 out of those 60 seconds (33% reduction in morale generation).

DIFFERENCE:

The Marauder has a net difference of 900 morale drained as the "nerf" over the average course of 1 minute (depending on wreckinball use will change this number). However, the Marauder also gains 20 seconds of that minute of preventing any morale gain. Therefore, if Order's Morale generation is higher than 900 over a course of 20 seconds, this change is actually a buff. If Orders Morale generation is lower than 900 of a course of 20 seconds, this change is a nerf. The actual amount of difference would indicate how large that nerf or buff is. For instance, if the Order is only generating 600 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale nerf. If Order is generating 1200 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale buff.

TLDR: Morale drain still works. It's more of a functionality change than a nerf, but also now requires a specific spec (Brut/Monstro), so thats a nerf in terms of overall viability (you can't really go Sav/Monstro anymore and do the AP drain and the morale drain at the same time). As per the actual amount of morale usage prevented, this could actually be a buff for Marauder, but it's variable based on how much morale the Order you are fighting is capable of generating. This change actually makes fighting against stronger groups who optimize their morale gain better, whereas it's more a nerf versus unoptimized Order players who are not maximizing their morale gain.

It's also pretty significant that the morale drain was moved from an 11 point tactic in the monstro tree, which is the warband/aoe spec to a 13 point ability in the brutality tree. Also note to get both as a 40/40 marauder you can not pick up any other abilities spec'able abilities. No matter how you number crunch that, it is a nerf.

Foofmonger
Posts: 195

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#127 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:41 pm

Bohavwn wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:34 am
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:17 pm
R3xz wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:43 pm


That could be a good start. How about morale drain proc/stoppage uptime now compare to how it used to be.

People complain nerf, well how much was it nerfed by? What are the parameters we need to look at to judge the nerf on an objective basis?

The damage buff is pretty straight forward to test out, but the morale drain change isn't, but I'm sure we can crunch some numbers at least theoretically.

I was hoping that the thread would answer some of these questions and conclusions can be made based on the numbers, not just feelings.
So sure, assuming everything works this isn't too hard.

Old Morale Drain: 25% chance on hit to remove 225 morale.
Old Morale Prevent: 100% chance to prevent morale for 5 seconds, every 10 seconds (50% uptime, but it didn't work).

New Morale Drain: 100% chance to remove 225 morale, once every 10 seconds.
New Morale Prevent: 10% chance on hit to prevent enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds.

Old State: You can drain morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for ease of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 25% chance every 1.5 seconds to remove 225 morale from X people that you hit. This means on average, to remove morale from a person (by demo spamming) you will remove 225 morale every 6 seconds from an individual target (4x Demolitions). The morale prevent didn't work, so you couldn't prevent morale.

New State: You can prevent morale as often as you hit, and as often as you proc. Assuming let's go with Demo Spam (for each of calculation, of course wrecking ball would be more effective), you have a 10% chance every 1.5 seconds to prevent the enemy from gaining morale for 5 seconds. This means on average, to prevent morale gain on a person (by demo spamming) you will proc the 5 second morale prevention, every 15 seconds on an individual target (10x Demolitions). The morale drain now drains 225 morale (guaranteed), once every 10 seconds (no average).

Summary (using Demo Spam):

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

NEW: 225 Morale Drained every 10 seconds - guaranteed (will not fluctuate). Morale generation prevented every 5 out of 15 seconds on average (could be higher or lower depending on procs).

Morale drain is nerfed (and I used demo), by at least 40%. In cases where you are using wrecking ball, it's nerfed quite more heavily. You will drain a considerable less morale then you used to. However, your morale drain is now on demand and reliable, and you will always drain 225 every 10 seconds (as long as you hit WoT when its cooldown is up)

Morale prevent is massively increased, by it's entirety because it didn't work. Now you can theoretically prevent groups from gaining morale for rougly about 33% uptime, which will effectively reduce their overall morale gain by that same percentage (could be higher or lower depending on procs, as well as using wrecking ball which ups the prercnt to proc signifcantly)

TOTALS:

OLD: 225 Morale Drained every 6 sections on individual targets on average (using demo spam). Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 2,250 Morale

NEW: 225 Morale drained every 10 seconds on individual targets (guaranteed with WoT). 33% average uptime on morale prevention. Over the course of 1 minute, the Marauder would drain on average: 1,350 morale, and stop the enemy from generating morale for 20 out of those 60 seconds (33% reduction in morale generation).

DIFFERENCE:

The Marauder has a net difference of 900 morale drained as the "nerf" over the average course of 1 minute (depending on wreckinball use will change this number). However, the Marauder also gains 20 seconds of that minute of preventing any morale gain. Therefore, if Order's Morale generation is higher than 900 over a course of 20 seconds, this change is actually a buff. If Orders Morale generation is lower than 900 of a course of 20 seconds, this change is a nerf. The actual amount of difference would indicate how large that nerf or buff is. For instance, if the Order is only generating 600 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale nerf. If Order is generating 1200 morale in 20 seconds, this is a 300 morale buff.

TLDR: Morale drain still works. It's more of a functionality change than a nerf, but also now requires a specific spec (Brut/Monstro), so thats a nerf in terms of overall viability (you can't really go Sav/Monstro anymore and do the AP drain and the morale drain at the same time). As per the actual amount of morale usage prevented, this could actually be a buff for Marauder, but it's variable based on how much morale the Order you are fighting is capable of generating. This change actually makes fighting against stronger groups who optimize their morale gain better, whereas it's more a nerf versus unoptimized Order players who are not maximizing their morale gain.

It's also pretty significant that the morale drain was moved from an 11 point tactic in the monstro tree, which is the warband/aoe spec to a 13 point ability in the brutality tree. Also note to get both as a 40/40 marauder you can not pick up any other abilities spec'able abilities. No matter how you number crunch that, it is a nerf.
I did cover that already in terms of the spec/functionality change. It does require a different playstyle, also not being 40/40 is good. Realistically you want to be at least 50 so you can grab the knockdown.

Also to note, now you have options. You don't have to spec both. You can grab WoT and forget about the morale blocker tactic. You can also still get the morale blocker and not bother with getting WoT/the drain. You can have "some morale prevention" capability without having to go "all in" on it, because you have 2 options where you used to have 1.

I do however reject your cursory analysis that "no matter how you number crunch it, it is a nerf", no that's wrong, and you are incorrect. It's far more nuanced then that as I have already illustrated, and you should probably just read the post again and try to absorb it next time. There are a variety of both nerfs and buffs in this change when it comes to morale drain, and it's not a clear cut "buff or nerf", which is why it is a "functionality change". What I've illustrated above is that the Marauder can now actually prevent more morale (if they spec for it), now then they could have before the patch (assuming of course that you are optimizing for it), and while it does require a specific spec, calling that a "nerf" is just stupid and responding to detailed analysis and "number crunching" with 'baseless unfounded opinions that have no analysis behind them", is a great way to make me laugh. Put in the work and do a detailed analysis, or understand that your opinion is worth as much as a wet fart on a cold morning.

Also, if anyone wants to discuss this further, I'd like to speak to people who have tested it in practice (as I have) and not people who are looking at notes and career builders. If you haven't even tried it yet (speaking in general), let's not try to refute the detailed analysis that's been used in practice with a theoretical opinion based on nothing.

Foofmonger
Posts: 195

Re: [Marauder change] patch notes discussion (28/03/20)

Post#128 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:58 pm

palindrom wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:17 am
worship wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:53 am
Hi,

Haven't found any posts on the dps increase through the 13 pages of the thread...

Could someone share any figures or at least impressions in general about the dps increase? Is it significant during the fight?
I used to run Sav/Brut, and if the buff is noticeable, i'd like to return to my beloved Mara.

Thanks!
5-20% depends on gears(softcapped str), flanking+MA, how often you crit and what target(robe/light armours after CC)
Palindrom is correct. Also for a little more nuance here: not all abilities have the same damage increase. If you go look at the patch notes, you can see the scaling increases, such as 1.5-1.65 or 1.5-1.7. So it's good to note that the abilities that received a "larger scaling buff", do more damage then those who did not. So the amount of damage buff is actually on a "per ability" basis.

Example: Wave of Terror went from .75-1.75, which was the largest buff at 1.00 (and makes sense, its a 13 point ability in a dps path), whereas many abilities have about a .15 buff. So it's actually dependent on the specific ability. Some abilities got 0 damage increase (like the barbs), whereas other abilities like Wave of Terror do much more damage then they used to (which in that abilities case, makes a lot of sense since it was basically awful).

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