[WITCH ELF] amelioration

[maggii]

Every class can make a case for having a r40 ability sooner. Maras get pull for example... y'all want that in the game as well?

Really? you are compairing mara's pull with 1 escape tool that the welf/wh has ? Does the pull increase mara's survivability equally or in any way ? Come on. Pls consider the difference between classes preconditions. Are they compairable ?

..stealth is one of the best gap closers, and usable in combat unlike some MMOs

A gap closer would be nice but the reasoning behind not having one is stealth.

stealth is a gap closer, a insanely good one.

I dont get it; after you have used ur "gap closer" and tried to burst and before the target are dead you get punted/cc:ed. Do u wait a 30sec so you can use stealth again and this is whilst u are getting cc:ed after cc, getting dot after dot and I recon that my enemy also has a direct dmg abilitity to use. Help me out here, so I have to survive 30sec, without dying and then use my stealth as a gap closer to kill my enemy or to use as disengage. I seriously have to hope that someone isnt interupting my stealth cast
Do explain pls. I would like to learn how to use this gap closer.

WH got repel blasphemy and some more defensive utility like Witchfinder's Protection + more sustain dmg options (BAL, IF) while he also profits from defending attacks (Vindication). the WE is more likely a hit and run class with either huge front- or backloaded burst potential (higher burst peaks than the wh), considering both overall kits.

What you have just written supports the fact that WH's has a "slightly" better toolbox then a WElf or did I smoke to much of Stavoz crack again D: A dead welf with higher burst dmg does still do less dmg than a wh

Solo killing healers is not your job this is a mistake many WE/WH make and they die for it allot. No good healer is going to die to a wh solo they will detaunt, cc, kite away. When a WH/WE tries this they are usually the only thing that dies so much can go wrong when your away from any kind of support on an mdps your 1 piece of cc away from being dead.

I think most peoples view's of "WH/WE Supa Gank Burst" is skewed heavily to only remember the few moments where RNG Jesus smiled and let every damn hit Crit. No one "remembers" the countless times a WH/WE just exploded.

This happens to me like 66% of the time I jump a healer. But I am a nub welf so no surprise there

M.A.D.? We have 100% armor ignore attack, a 50% armour ignore clicky, feinted positioning. Stacking WS on a WH is asinine and irrelevant.
Cant kill healers? What are you smoking? In either of the damage trees a healer is going to need to be exceptionally good, have a very aware group or a guard bot. Its either opener + PW + dead or opener + lol stacking heal debuffs + EW +dead

Are u sure about this mate? I dont think you ever killed my healer when u have popped on me. (dok maggiie) So what are yer smokin'? We can do an experiment ingame, you pop on my healer and burst me down and lets see about bread and butter.

I know WE/WH aren't the best class for ORvR. Far from it. If anything, they are one of the worst.

That they would be inferiour in orvr are maybe to the lack of aoe dmg or group debuffs/buffs. Which is NOT a class to have it on, and if so a small melee one. Their 3rd morale is strong already. Because of this they are less attractive in a "perfect" group setup were slayers, choppas, mara's, sw's and other rdps has the edge. But hey, a monkey with brains can play with this dps setup/combination. There is a reason why these so called "pro" premades or players only chooses these classes. Autofocus, swift assist or macro and everything should burn, frankly voice com has only a social function with this setup. Just know how to follow the assigned MA and you are good to go. But if you want some challange, a harder kind of gameplay that simply demands more from the whole group then choose a welf/wh as MA

edit (I should have written also); On live I did not play Destro nor WElf. I started to play WElf here on RoR. And I fell in love with it for several reasons. Among which are the theory crafting behind this class. To chat about WElf specs/tactics and what nots with another WElf player. Like almost every Welf or WH I have talked to have a different approach to reach the goals of the class. Test different WElfs setup or mastery specs rotations from different players. Arh, what I mean Is that you can play this class quite personal/unique successfully. ANnd It's soo fun to plaaaayy

[Saftdryck]

Damn, so those 70% of bad Welfs and Whs since 2008 and in here RoR still whine how these classes should be made more powerful? Serious L2P issues here.

I saw few names in this thread of WE/WH players that knows what theyre doing, so they said allready most things needed to say...

Currently what WElfs and especially WHs need, is stealth fix, i.e. fixing the aggro or how mobs and pets see you trough stealth.

[lilsabin]

one guy up there said get a tank to roam with you , loool , so i am supposed to be asking in channel if there is a tank that would like t make my gameplay experience better... i understand this whole rvr , group play game style , but it s a failure (yes i said it ) . that s why the game failed live . i am not asking to give every classes every ability possible , but geez , we need to review the balance thing and focus this less on group vs group . i only got around 1-2 hours per week to play this game , so it will be fun to get in action when i log in and not wait to find a partner . i am still wondering what is the goal of witch elf in this game . cause from what i read through the forums , since it s a group vs group game , every body should be spamming aoe abilities . (dont u find that a little retarded ?)... lets face it , we/wh is a ROGUE class , despite what people will say , so rogue are assassins they jump on you when u not prepared , then they incapacitate you and finish you off , wich is not the case in this game . how is a rogue suppose to opperate in a 30 vs 30 battle ? when he has no escape /dissapear ability (AND DONT TELL ME ABOUT STEALTH IN THIS GAME) . even tho , you have to wait till lvl 40 to get a disengage ability . So what am i doing till lvl 40 (lvl cap) ? wondering and trying to find people to play with me , so they can help me progress ?

[maggii]

i understand this whole rvr , group play game style , but it s a failure (yes i said it ) . that s why the game failed live . i am not asking to give every classes every ability possible , but geez , we need to review the balance thing and focus this less on group vs group .

I disagree. I like the fact that every class has a specific role, but still gives the player the possibility to adjust the class and mech. for she/he. The balance thing, hmm IDK, focus more on tweaks and fixes, forinstance stealth, pull, pets and the bugs in pvp content/aspects.

i am still wondering what is the goal of witch elf in this game . cause from what i read through the forums , since it s a group vs group game , every body should be spamming aoe abilities . (dont u find that a little retarded ?)

... lets face it , we/wh is a ROGUE class , despite what people will say , so rogue are assassins they jump on you when u not prepared , then they incapacitate you and finish you off , wich is not the case in this game . how is a rogue suppose to opperate in a 30 vs 30 battle ?

AOE is kinda ezmode/boring but effective, I think every game comes to this, when ppl starts to understand mechs and discover the easy way to be effective in x vs. x. The utility of a WElf/WH and the goal is up to you and the group/wb. I believe there is a spot in a group or a wb if the leader and the player can utilize a wh/welf . Nevertheless, melee-trains can be effective, WElf/WH's are truly effective in small scale, the stealth gives the combination with other classes endless. In smallscale group with primary ST build you dont want to face a zwerg in their face obviously. A premade of 6 ppl, can build an effective combination with a welf/wh for roam and sc, all comes down to the player(s).

you have to wait till lvl 40 to get a disengage ability . So what am i doing till lvl 40 (lvl cap) ?

Gear up and find ways to survive without stealth.

[Lileldys]

..stealth is one of the best gap closers, and usable in combat unlike some MMOs

A gap closer would be nice but the reasoning behind not having one is stealth.

stealth is a gap closer, a insanely good one.

I dont get it; after you have used ur "gap closer" and tried to burst and before the target are dead you get punted/cc:ed. Do u wait a 30sec so you can use stealth again and this is whilst u are getting cc:ed after cc, getting dot after dot and I recon that my enemy also has a direct dmg abilitity to use. Help me out here, so I have to survive 30sec, without dying and then use my stealth as a gap closer to kill my enemy or to use as disengage. I seriously have to hope that someone isnt interupting my stealth cast
Do explain pls. I would like to learn how to use this gap closer.

Lets compare it to "Charge". Both are considered gap closers. Both have a 30s cooldown. Stealth cooldown starts on opener is big difference.

Stealth allows you to walk up to a target without being spotted 95% of the time, and you can stay stealthed for 30seconds. Staying stealthed for up to 30seconds isn't bad due to the 50% ap reduction from your opener.

Charge gives you a 50% speed boost for 7 seconds. During this time, you can be knocked, rooted, snared which all in all reduce the effectiveness of the skill.

Using anti-root is a different tool all-together. It's a strong defensive tool, forcing the other groups or whatever to use it to catch you when you need to kite out of damage.

The thing you'll be looking for is a "window" where you get to stealth up. Think about Lost Temple of Isha, you control the flag, and the other team is pushing in from the front. You stealth up, come in for damage, keep brawling in the choke for 30seconds. Stealth is off-cooldown now, but now you need to look at the situation and think, is stealthing now a good time?
Are you mid-focusing a target? Then obviously it's not a good idea to try and stealth. Sorc/BW right next to you? Don't need to stealth for that.
Just tanks left in the choke? You can get behind a wall really easily to stealth up out of LoS, then proceed to walk past them without getting peeled from their backline.

It looks to me like you and many other WE/WHs need to look at getting more into brawling on these classes. Speccing renown in 20pts parry, 10 or 20pts resolute, and 10pts or 20pts Cleansing Wind. Getting a guard, and focusing DPS instead of healers. This is currently where the classes can really shine, bringing healdebuffs, initiative debuffs, armour ignore.

i understand this whole rvr , group play game style , but it s a failure (yes i said it ) . that s why the game failed live . i am not asking to give every classes every ability possible , but geez , we need to review the balance thing and focus this less on group vs group .

I disagree. I like the fact that every class has a specific role, but still gives the player the possibility to adjust the class and mech. for she/he. The balance thing, hmm IDK, focus more on tweaks and fixes, forinstance stealth, pull, pets and the bugs in pvp content/aspects.

WH/WE can perform in competitive warband enviroments with OYK/Dragongun(ya rly) with outgoing healdebuff Kiss/Bullets and hitting the backlines while bombers clear the front with their weakened healers.

you have to wait till lvl 40 to get a disengage ability . So what am i doing till lvl 40 (lvl cap) ?

Gear up and find ways to survive without stealth.

Pre-40 is the time to learn your class without certain abilities. So as maggii says, learn to play without it. Anti-Snare is a good start for disengage. Flee is also an option but not as strong. Abusing LoS vs Ranged is a good way to live too.

[maggii]

Do explain pls. I would like to learn how to use this gap closer.

Some ironi in that

Charge gives you a 50% speed boost for 7 seconds. During this time, you can be knocked, rooted, snared which all in all reduce the effectiveness of the skill.

Yes, and this is why WElf/WH is fine imo.

Using anti-root is a different tool all-together. It's a strong defensive tool, forcing the other groups or whatever to use it to catch you when you need to kite out of damage.

Agree its good. I dislike the fact that I "loose" 1 tactic slot. Maybe here it could be a small, tiny buff. Like the tactic also decrease CD of anti-root.

Staying stealthed for up to 30seconds isn't bad due to the 50% ap reduction from your opener.

Agree, I dont think Stealth to be touched.

The thing you'll be looking for is a "window" where you get to stealth up.

This is were common sense applies.

It looks to me like you and many other WE/WHs need to look at getting more into brawling on these classes. Speccing renown in 20pts parry, 10 or 20pts resolute, and 10pts or 20pts Cleansing Wind.

Yes, all good but boring

Getting a guard, and focusing DPS instead of healers. This is currently where the classes can really shine, bringing healdebuffs, initiative debuffs, armour ignore.

Uhm with guard, a welf/wh should take down almost anything, healer and dps. Without guard, yes choosing targets is more important.

[Atropik]

WH/WE can perform in competitive warband enviroments with OYK/Dragongun(ya rly) with outgoing healdebuff Kiss/Bullets and hitting the backlines while bombers clear the front with their weakened healers.

"Clear the front", while their healers are weakened with ...... dragongun!

I have a plan now!

[lilsabin]

charge in this game is a joke too , lool , sorry . but the gape closing ability need to have some kind of immunity , or should be hard to intercept , exemple , if you charge and a SW just knock u down , it s game over and waste of time , it should be a lil bit like charge in WoW , Rift , and other mmorpg . the problem in this game is the KD and KB . Everybody dont need a knockback , especially if u are a melee class that should be bursting damage and that include TANKS . why does a TANK have a knock back ability ?

[lilsabin]

charge in this game is a joke too , lool , sorry . but the gape closing ability need to have some kind of immunity , or should be hard to intercept , exemple , if you charge and a SW just knock u down , it s game over and waste of time , it should be a lil bit like charge in WoW , Rift , and other mmorpg . the problem in this game is the KD and KB . Everybody dont need a knockback , especially if u are a melee class that should be bursting damage and that include TANKS . why does a TANK have a knock back ability ?

[Lileldys]

WH/WE can perform in competitive warband enviroments with OYK/Dragongun(ya rly) with outgoing healdebuff Kiss/Bullets and hitting the backlines while bombers clear the front with their weakened healers.

"Clear the front", while their healers are weakened with ...... dragongun!

I have a plan now!

Dragongun has the advantage over OYK in wbs due to Bullets Proccing 100% on executes. Yup, 9 Outgoing healdebuffs AoE :^)