High Disrupt is an issue

[Arteker616]

no, it only work vs healer because all not healer class dont have any single willp on gear/renow/tactic and go around in base willp (if you exclude bg/ib buff ) int vs willp is a matter of magic caster vs healer only (or if you include it is even worst on healer since they reach 1050 willp with ease).

PLus willp is a primary stat while wep skill/ini arent, so a primary stat (str,bal skill,int, willp) is also giving a defense while others dont.

Except my WS is over 900 as a secondary stat and any healer who is stacking 900 WP is just gonna melt. Will Power IS the secondary stat to defensive stats to Healers (at least competent healers).

doset matter how much is high, for bal skill will increase your dmg more than stack wep skill.... also i would like to know in conqueror how you reach 900 wep skill,,, thats way to much to have all the other nice stuff.

Because after the changes made in sw they can get retarded ammounts of ws,specialy in the assault stance, some genious did not noticed bufin mele three u got a rdps turned mdps wich can mele like a truck and still can drop ranged dmg on the move wich hit fairly well due to super high WS they get.

[Manatikik]

Except my WS is over 900 as a secondary stat and any healer who is stacking 900 WP is just gonna melt. Will Power IS the secondary stat to defensive stats to Healers (at least competent healers).

doset matter how much is high, for bal skill will increase your dmg more than stack wep skill.... also i would like to know in conqueror how you reach 900 wep skill,,, thats way to much to have all the other nice stuff.

Because after the changes made in sw they can get retarded ammounts of ws,specialy in the assault stance, some genious did not noticed bufin mele three u got a rdps turned mdps wich can mele like a truck and still can drop ranged dmg on the move wich hit fairly well due to super high WS they get.

Uhhh the amount of WS i can gain is the same as always? Same amount as live in fact.

[Nealio]

What kind of answer is "play a melee class for awhile..."

[gotharg]

Solution: Trivial Blows

[lefze]

doset matter how much is high, for bal skill will increase your dmg more than stack wep skill.... also i would like to know in conqueror how you reach 900 wep skill,,, thats way to much to have all the other nice stuff.

Because after the changes made in sw they can get retarded ammounts of ws,specialy in the assault stance, some genious did not noticed bufin mele three u got a rdps turned mdps wich can mele like a truck and still can drop ranged dmg on the move wich hit fairly well due to super high WS they get.

Uhhh the amount of WS i can gain is the same as always? Same amount as live in fact.

The clue here is, 900+ WS is in assault, and there you reach 950ish from gear/talismans. The tradeoff is a bit lower strength. In a skirmish build you are only gonna reach just above 700 outside of assault stance, and you trade some serious amount of ballistic skill for it. Of course investing renown into it is gonna give higher numbers, but I don't think anyone with a clue does that.

[Cimba]

Sure, you can wipe unorganized pugs and lowbies with high dmg dealing magical casters, but assuming any kind of competent enemy setup that has cleanses and real Shields, you might as well flush down your magical dps down the toilet and tell them to reroll a class that can perform efficiently in combat against brain-using enemies that run groups with all the support that a solid group can bring (cleanse+HTL+guard+CastInterrupts+GapClosers)
The question remains, how to fix classes that can keep wiping unorganized puglifers with relative ease, but fails to perform against organized enemy groups.

I had the same thought when the changes hit. But surprisingly I found it not to be true, at least for order and the BW.

In RvR random aoe dots from engis often prevent any serious cleansing efforts outside of dok M2. Guard is of course an issue since its almost impossible to figure out who guards who in a blob. And even if you knew it would be hard to remove the tank. HTL is a thing and annoying when propertly used but the in theory flawless wall of HTL tanks develops usually quite a few gaps when things start to move and therefore can be exploited. I dont know how often a cast of mine has been interrupted, maybe twice? Not really an issue from my experience.
I'm acutally amazed how much you can still kill with SW+BW combo. True we're both RR75+ and have BIS gear but from the narrative of this thread one could think BW/Sorcs are too bad to be played. Reality seems to be a bit different though. BW and Sorc still regularly claim the top spots in kills in the zone. When was the last time a magus or engi topped the charts? Probably when NuclearpoTato was around

Even in 6on6 BWs can do alright since shields became unfashionable. With HTL gone dps have to make considerable sacrifices to get their disrupt up to levels where it becomes troublesome (considering ~10% strikethrough from gear). Healer are of course a different story. But tbh healers are the last people you focus in 6on6.

[dansari]

Because after the changes made in sw they can get retarded ammounts of ws,specialy in the assault stance, some genious did not noticed bufin mele three u got a rdps turned mdps wich can mele like a truck and still can drop ranged dmg on the move wich hit fairly well due to super high WS they get.

Except there's always a tradeoff. Melee SWs running something like this build aren't running Powerful Draw, which means they're in 65 feet of their target, which means they can be m1 rooted or mara pulled whenever you want. If they're in melee range and they're giving you problems, do what you do against any mdps...

I'm acutally amazed how much you can still kill with SW+BW combo. True we're both RR75+ and have BIS gear but from the narrative of this thread one could think BW/Sorcs are too bad to be played. Reality seems to be a bit different though. BW and Sorc still regularly claim the top spots in kills in the zone. When was the last time a magus or engi topped the charts? Probably when NuclearpoTato was around

It's definitely a different world when you're rr40 vs when you're rr70.. the extra crit or extra defenses you can establish help a lot. But, I do agree -- some of the complaining just seems to be a l2p issue. Although comparing top kills to magus/engy is silly. Good magi/engies are few and far between, and the raw damage a BW can bring is gonna be a lot higher.

[Darosh]

Might wanna drop top kills in the lakes as a metric for performance ~ its a cakewalk for BWs/Sorcs to score high, if ~47% of the population runs their sub40's without resistances/avoidance, guards and heals into the lakes.

Timestamping people left and right, let alone getting to run a bombspec in a pug warband is a luxus that got introduced with the tier merger and is reinforced by the utter lack of organization on both realms; its equally as much of a l2p issue to consider things to be perfect, as it is to consider it all to be doom and gloom broken.

BWs/Sorcs are still the very same, very potent pugkillers they have always been ~ however I can't imagine either to perform well when up against a group with two SnB tanks or an otherwise min/maxed opposition, unlike mdps they lack the pressure to make up for the lack of damage during CC/morale/HtL/assist cycles. But then again, competitve small scale encounters occur once every thousand blue moons - (organized) large scale remains BW/sorc domain, after all.

TLDR: Not much if anything changed for BW/Sorc, it just made them require a tiny bit more setup whenever organized forces clash. I'd say the class/spec that got **** over the most is dot Magus, but that spec didn't see much luv either way.
(RoR = Return of Rdps, with tangible increase to difficaulty - for good, if I might add)

Abbd.: To rephrase the above: The change to defensives merely requires BWs/Sorcs to actually assist other dps in everything-pug, from time to time. It is no guranteed split-pressure anymore, which is just fine as it levels the playing field between mdps and rdps as they compete for slots in a roaming group; rdps still have a considerable edge in the risk/reward and roaming department...

[wonshot]

Spoiler:

Hello, I am a fairly new player on this server. Currently playing a level 32 BW, doing open warbands in T2-T4 oRvR and havnt played since Live before the Skaven patch.

I understand this is a freeshard run on a different patch, but something just feels wrong as a caster atm. I pretty much gave up continuing playing the BW a few times after seeing very disappointing results. What kept me going was the idea of "i can still improve my char, improve the levels, gear, stats and learn to play it better"

However. What I am reading on here, pretty much just confirms my gutfeeling ingame. Everything is too tanky for me to even touch. Tanks? Blocks and distrupts, and whatever damage should connect is so minor. Mdps. Guarded, like it should be and requires coordination to take down. I am fine with that. Healers, I simply cant for the life of me connect the dots in the firstplace, and if i do. the ticks get distrupted. Rdps. Sure ill take a fight with the SHs, but is that my role now?

I am playing rather casually. I know how coordination works in premades where you punt the guardbot away, kill the dps etc etc Ive done that in the past. I came on here to enjoy some nostalgia from this great game on my old time favoritclass. But right now I almost feel guilty for taking up a spot in the open warbands since I could easily just have been some other class and been more useful. My cc dont connect, and my ranged damage presure is so limmited that the motivation is dropping faster that moralebar out of combat.

I will push to level 40 and get all the +bypass to distrupt and see how the game is then, but I am slowly accepting the results awaiting me. If the distrupt changes were made because rpds was too dominant I am sure other solutions could be made to help that, and hopefully disrupt would be looked at again. Because right now, atleast for me. its killing my will to even log in.

Hey bud, I understand your frustration but I would like to give some advice on how to make it better, and rest assured that it does get better (although you are right, trying to take down a healer solo is a feat -- you need coordination of dps to do that, but that's another story):

You're level 32? That's the main problem. Honestly it's worlds difference being level 29 with a bolster than it is level 32 with a bolster. The gear that you can equip is simply not on the same level as what a 40 can equip, and your stats likely show that because the bolster does not clear that gap for you anymore. What is your intelligence? Unless you're at least 900, you're gonna have a bad time. People with 1050 int and 7% disrupt strikethrough still have an incredibly hard time taking down healers.

Here's what I would do: no matter what your rr is currently, just grind to 40 by aoe farming mobs. You're not going to be very strong at level 32, and another tactic slot will do wonders. Along the way you can do the t4 epic quest to get the staff, Dragonfire: https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/inde ... _the_Enemy
And depending on your RR and currency you can get merc gear, which is better for BWs than anni. Pair that with the best +intelligence jewelry you can get, and potted you should be hitting at least 1000 intelligence. I like this spec for general rvr/scs: Bright Wizard because I think it gives you good mobility and burst damage for most situations.

Target selection is important for BW because you know that healers will be able to disrupt a good portion of your rotation, so pick particularly squishy 2h tanks or mdps -- you'll get better the more you play. Finally, your standard rotation in a perfect setup is simply Ignite > Boiling Blood > Fireball > Sear > Nova (something to that affect) because Boiling Blood + Fireball + Sear will all pretty much hit in the same timestamp, and Nova for good measure. Set up a macro to assist and even in pug scs, you can assist a WL or WH or SL and set up burst damage on a target. My 2c

Thanks for the feedback, I know the routation from Live how to make all the damage connect at the same time so thats not my problem. I figured it would be breaking into the 31-40 bolster. I have my RR up at my level and got softcap int since level 15. I try to get Bypass disrupt where ever i can, however I simply dont and havnt felt like I will be able to perform the role as a damage dealer how disrupt it working right now. If each time on my dots have to bypass a disrupt check, the CC to peel for myself have to bypass 50%+ disrupt chance. I'll try to make it work because i like the class and the nostalgia, but I just tried to give my input as a returning player who is leveling and how godaweful it feels right now. I do hope it gets better, but from what I am reading I am setting myself up for disappointment. If ranged damage was too high maybe taking a look into the resist debuffs, resist caps or something about the mitigating would be better than stopping all spell connects, ticks, and effects.

[bloodi]

Again, the problem is not that "they tried to nerf casters and thats not cool". The problem is not that BW/Sorc are completely useless in every regard. And its not the fact that you have to pick targets either.

Sorc/BW can still go to orvr and do ton of damage in aoe spec, for sure. But that is also the worst thing of it all, that somehow the silly spec that just requires you to be in a warband with some healer around didnt get affected that much, the only thing you need to circumvent any problems with it is what you always had to do in Orvr, bring more of them, if you used too require 4 bws to kill something, now that they are getting lets say 50% disrupts, no problem, bring 8 and **** will be done anyway.

Because what do you have to do in a bombing BW/sorc? Either stay back at 80ft and chuck aoe balls at them or either wait for the aoe pull or get in with some coordination, then just do your combo and if they are not dead yoou either didnt coordinate or need more people.

Its aoe, hits multiple targets, if it doesnt hit some, others will, they will die.

But what about the other casters? What about single target specs? What about healer debuffs? What about dot specs?

All of them do get royally screwed because BW/Sorc? And just because of "think about those poor mdps pugs"?

Seriously, is not even a proper fix, is just RNG, great, sometimes my combo doesnt work, other times it goes through and they still die, riveting gameplay right here, BB/WoP gets disrupted? Well wait 10 secs and do something else meanwhile and then try again! What is not fun about that? For both parts mind you, he must have the time of his life not noticing my spells getting disrupted and them boom, die as usual because this time, they got through.

Because the best target is still those mdps mind you.

So it didnt do anything for ORVR, they are still great there. They really werent overperforming in 6vs6 or organized play but they got worse there and all other casters got royally screwed because of it.

So what is the point of all this ****? How did the game get any better with this? I fail to see it, someone clue me in.