[Chosen] Seeping Wound/Tainted Wound Tactic

[Smellybelly]

Edited initial post , scrapped heal debuff idea

[Luuca]

Spoiler:

Smellybelly:

The entire tree is usually ignored in favour of 2H builds or SnB/Oppression builds.

Reply: Note that entire tree is not ignored as it is the Resists Buff/Debuff tree and also has Quake at 10 points. But yes, the tactic Tainted Wound is lackluster at best.

Suggestions:
A: Increase DoT damage to somewhat more meaningful values, its a curse wich can still be cleansed.

Reply: Not a bad idea if you are talking about increasing the damage to healers only. The base damage for a spammable dot is in line with the rest of the game. If you are talking about the Tactic "actual" damage to healers (who aren't on the ball with cleansing) is easily mitigated and hardly noticed. The tooltip states "225 damage" but in my experience, it's mitigated down to around 150 damage. I do not believe it can crit. Upping the damage by 40%-50% to healers when the tactic is in use could make it worthwhile without breaking the game.


B: Add a incoming heal-debuff

Reply: This already exists in the form of an Discordant Turbulence "causing healing on any foes within 30 feet to be 25% less effective" I don't think a second heal debuff is needed.

With Tactic Tainted Wound add:

A: Make it stack up to three times and make the duration longer, adjust damage to match. If its 3 stacks and 9 second duration then the chosen would spam this and not have time for other skills, i propose you increase the duration and stretch the dmg done out for the new time it lasts. Perhaps also let the tactic dmg stack 3 times to help taking out healers.

Reply: The base damage from Seeping Wound Stacking 3x would mean no buff to base damage, but it would not need it if 3x damage was in place - still cleanseable and still spammable.

B: Make it a life leech effect, perhaps like the SM tactic Blessing of Heaven.
A dot on your target makes it heal anyone attacking that target for X over X seconds.

Reply: I like this idea as the Chosen has the absolute worst self-heal in-game. I would tie the self-heal or Life Leech to using the Seeping Wound tactic AND the Discordant Turbulence Aura. When both the tactic and Aura are in use, the party members within 30 feet receive 50% of the damage done to the healers.



I like this last one as a solution. It makes the tactic valuable enough without it being mandatory.

A group 50% life leech seems like it would be incredibly broken and mandatory.

9 second duration on Seeping wounds
GCD is 1.25 seconds
Insta cast heal (Rune Priest for example)

If a RP spams insta heal for the entire duration, he will be hit 7 times over 9 seconds for "255" damage

Assuming mitigation is about 25% (-63 damage), 255 becomes 192. 192 becomes 50% or 96 heals each "heal damage"

assuming Tank, Mdps, and a +1 within 30 feet of front lines, 96x7 "hits" = 672 healing per party member in this scenario.

672 heals over 7 seconds x 3 players = 2016 healing total. Over 7 seconds that's 288 heals per second per second.

Insta Cast RP heal has base 295 heals. 7x295 = 2065 total healing over duration Not including +healing Power, Crit, etc. ... or +49 more heals for duration for the RP as a base. Probably more like 700 more heal over 7 seconds.

While I agree it seems to be too much return on investment for "ONLY" a tactic slot, an aura choice, and for a Cleanseable curse, if you do the math, a WP Group Cleanse would net zero heals (or hell, ANY Single Target Cleanse for that matter).

I'll admit, maybe 50% is too much, but it's a discussion, not a vote. While I value your opinion, your opinion without an alternative solution isn't very helpful.

Same numbers at 25% life leech means 1032.5 heals over 7 seconds or 147.5 heals per second over 3 players; or 49 heals per second per affected player in this scenario.

[adamthelc]

I read it wrong, that's not bad. I would just word it differently for idiots like me.

[Skullgrin]

OK, did some tests to see just exactly what Seeping Wound does in terms of damage so that opinions on it will hopefully be more informed. The first tests I did were at 675 strength and the second set were at 800 strength. Both have 10 points in the Discord tree, 9 of them to get to Quake and the last point to actually get Quake.

Here is the first set at 675 strength -
Tooltip Damage


Target Dummy Damage


Forlorn Soul Damage



Here is the second set at 800 strength -
Tooltip Damage


Target Dummy Damage


Forlorn Soul Damage


Seeping Wound is ticking once every 3 seconds and at 675 strength is hitting for 275-400 damage. At 800 strength (what I normally try to run at a minimum), is hitting the for 300-450 damage before mitigation. The numbers seem a bit high, however most of the hits are critical, which skews the damage upward. As to my personal views an your proposals -

Suggestions:
A: Increase DoT damage to somewhat more meaningful values, its a curse wich can still be cleansed.

The damage seems ok to me, however I may be influenced by the fact that I have a high RR and BiS gear. I'll leave discussion of the damage to those that have more experience adjusting that.

B: EDITED: OLD Healdebuff [SCRAPPED] NEW: Let the dot spread to anyone healing the target. Same damage and same duration, cannot be refreshed until it has run its full 9 second duration. Maximum of (insert arbitary number for example 3 or up to 9 perhaps for warbands)

The idea of the DoT spreading is an intriguing one that I like, however it could possibly be way too powerful. I suppose that it could be tried and then have the damage adjusted if it was found to be too high.

With Tactic Tainted Wound add:

A: Make it stack up to three times and make the duration longer, adjust damage to match. If its 3 stacks and 9 second duration then the chosen would spam this and not have time for other skills, i propose you increase the duration and stretch the dmg done out for the new time it lasts. Perhaps also let the tactic dmg stack 3 times to help taking out healers.

This doesn't sound horrible, however I believe that a cooldown would probably need to be added to do this, not sure tho.

B: Make it a life leech effect, perhaps like the SM tactic Blessing of Heaven.
A dot on your target makes it heal anyone attacking that target for X over X seconds.

I really, REALLY like this idea which makes me think it is too powerful. That or it gives me another reason to hate Swordmasters. Either way though I would be more than happy to try this out because the Chosen heal regen aura kinda sucks.

[Tesq]

@thargrim, what about test the dmg on something with a res aura on it....

437 critical unmitigated dmgs with a 40% mitigation from any ppl with min res +res aura give an end tick of 262 every 3 sec. Post guard is 131 dmg every 3 sec...

anyway i oppose at this "buff train" onto seeping wounds

-it's a core skill /dot as many other in game (unlocked at lv 3...)
-you are a tank with a core dot,you are not suppose to make high dmg

so any change should be aim to tactic only there is no need to overbuff discord dmg, which is the primary mastery spec for up the base dmg (letting aside stuff that increase dmg on dread). Just look at touch of palsy, to have a complete effect it use a tactic and is very rewarding to keep the pressure.

regarding solution for tactics:

solution B is redundant and wrong/flawled with mastery/s logic:
- how many heal source you need? there are alredy synphoned energy and heal aura, Especially heal aura do actually only heal not like kobs one which also regen ap, so the only forte of that aura is heal, and it's from another mastery-
- The heals from synphoned energy are from a very specific for proc condition; you need to disrupt...... you cant just get it from anyone. The mastery revolve aroud anti-magic not just a debuff or dot mastery you can profit from anyone and in melee.

solution C- C/D (increase dmg from touch of palsy/blast wave) is OP, touch of palsy is alredy the main chosen damaging skill........

ravage/seeping wounds <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< touch of palsy,

also it does alredy have a dedicated tactic one which cut off his CD so it can dish more dmg (quickened discord) by keep pressure up all the time. The same tactic work aswell for blast wave, so i am against to also give more benefith to alredy empowered by tactics skills so that you can use seeping wound as screen ( because this is what is used atm , as screen for touch of palsy toghether with blast wave).

Litteraly the only 2 skills in that mastery which need an empowering via tactic are either stag or seeping wounds

[Skullgrin]

@thargrim, what about test the dmg on something with a res aura on it....

Why? You can calculate that when you have the base damage it does, if you want to figure it out. And even if you did, how much resistance? 300, 600, 900? Much easier to just do the math with the base numbers...

[Smellybelly]

@thargrim, what about test the dmg on something with a res aura on it....

437 critical unmitigated dmgs with a 40% mitigation from any ppl with min res +res aura give an end tick of 262 every 3 sec. Post guard is 131 dmg every 3 sec...

anyway i oppose at this "buff train" onto seeping wounds

-it's a core skill /dot as many other in game (unlocked at lv 3...)
-you are a tank with a core dot,you are not suppose to make high dmg

so any change should be aim to tactic only there is no need to overbuff discord dmg, which is the primary mastery spec for up the base dmg (letting aside stuff that increase dmg on dread). Just look at touch of palsy, to have a complete effect it use a tactic and is very rewarding to keep the pressure.

regarding solution for tactics:

solution B is redundant and wrong/flawled with mastery/s logic:
- how many heal source you need? there are alredy synphoned energy and heal aura, Especially heal aura do actually only heal not like kobs one which also regen ap, so the only forte of that aura is heal, and it's from another mastery-
- The heals from synphoned energy are from a very specific for proc condition; you need to disrupt...... you cant just get it from anyone. The mastery revolve aroud anti-magic not just a debuff or dot mastery you can profit from anyone and in melee.

solution C- C/D (increase dmg from touch of palsy/blast wave) is OP, touch of palsy is alredy the main chosen damaging skill........

ravage/seeping wounds <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< touch of palsy,

also it does alredy have a dedicated tactic one which cut off his CD so it can dish more dmg (quickened discord) by keep pressure up all the time. The same tactic work aswell for blast wave, so i am against to also give more benefith to alredy empowered by tactics skills so that you can use seeping wound as screen ( because this is what is used atm , as screen for touch of palsy toghether with blast wave).

Litteraly the only 2 skills in that mastery which need an empowering via tactic are either stag or seeping wounds

Do you any any suggestion or alternative then? The stagger wont be changed above 3 seconds, so lets focus on seeping wounds + tactic