[Squig Herder] Da Smell Don't bother me [Close Date Aug 24]

[doky]

Identify the issue:
Da Smell Don't bother me tactic is underperforming.

Explain why it is an issue:
The whole idea of making this proposal came to me after reading what Dansari said in this topic below about White Lion self heal tactic. viewtopic.php?f=97&t=27858 .
Mechanic wise- Squig herder and White lion are mirrors in this game. Both are pet class and have a lot of mirrored tactics and abilities. White lion's tactic Furious mending(which looks exactly like a mirror tactic) been uped from 120hp/5sec to 240hp/sec self and pet heal due to underperforming. In my opinion Da Smell Don't bother me is underperforming for SH and since change for White Lion made his selfheal tactic viable, it will do same for Squig herder.

Proposal:
Option A: Da Smell Don't bother me heal 240hp/5sec instead of 120/5.

Option B: Da Smell Don't bother me heal 240hp/5sec for both Squig armor and Horned Squig.

[dansari]

Closed Aug 24.

One relevant piece not being mentioned is that Furious Mending requires investment in a tree. I could see this change being fine if 'Ere Squiggy was moved to core and swapped, though I don't know if 'Ere Squiggy is often taken in melee squig builds.

[Ramasee]

Using 15 points into Hoeth and therefore rank 40 of these tactics: Blessing of Heaven is 132 over 3s (for anyone assisting you) [44] and Bolstering Enchantments is 405 over 10s [40.5]for your whole group.

So if rank 40 of the WL tactic is 240 over 5s [48] and squig herder is 120 over 5s [24]; This proposal seems fine. In fact, you can probably buff both of them slightly above WL's value since they only effect you and your pet instead of 6+ people.

[Athergic]

I think moving ere squiggy to core would be a nice option to have for ranged squig herders who want to try a more close range build perhaps. It is really useful for melee as well though, especially with the pet changes.

I used to love using da smell don't bother me, but with 2 other defensive tactics outshining it completely it's not worth it anymore as is.

[Dallas2288]

Spoiler:

Dansari is an Order biased hack. You're just spinning your wheels here looking for some Destro love from him.

Every class should get a 4pt tactic for 240 HoT since it's so irrelevant and weak.

Shitposting in Balance Forums - Az

[Foomy44]

Just want to point out that Da Smell Don't Bother Me only works when you are in squig armor while Furious Mending works 100% of the time. Getting locked out of your self healing tactic for 10 seconds every time you want to use your knockback or ranged snare (SA has a 10 second CD from when it is deactivated) is a pretty big drawback to a tactic that is already significantly weaker than it's mirror.

Dansari says "It was already 120 before and it was completely unused. 120hp is 1400 every minute, which is like 1/6 of a Guardian WL hp pool."

Whelp, it wasn't actually just 120 before, it was 120+120 because it works on their pet also which this tactic does not. So really atm Furious Mending does 4x more healing than this tactic with guaranteed 100% uptime. 5600 healing every minute from 1 tactic slot is a lot, especially on a class that can run away anytime it wants and use this to regen while in combat.
Prebuff it was still doing 2x the healing with more uptime, and if no one was using that tactic then because it needed a buff to be effective then seems obvious to me Da Smell Don't Bother Me is even more deserving of a buff.

Buff it to WL levels (or slightly higher to make up for the drawback of it not having 100% uptime, maybe no healing on the pet to balance that out and keep up with the theme of expendable squigs), put it in the melee tree so everyone pretending like the mastery point cost makes a difference can be satisfied (99% of melee SH's will have the spare points to take that tactic due to not caring at all about the ranged attack alternatives in other trees that they can't use in SA, and ranged SH will have no reason to take it anyways due to it's restriction, seems like it would honestly be a SH buff to put this in the tree since the only thing trading this with Ere Squiggy will do is make it easier for ranged to take Ere Squiggy).

[dansari]

Just want to point out that Da Smell Don't Bother Me only works when you are in squig armor while Furious Mending works 100% of the time. Getting locked out of your self healing tactic for 10 seconds every time you want to use your knockback or ranged snare (SA has a 10 second CD from when it is deactivated) is a pretty big drawback to a tactic that is already significantly weaker than it's mirrors.

Dansari says "It was already 120 before and it was completely unused. 120hp is 1400 every minute, which is like 1/6 of a Guardian WL hp pool."

Whelp, it wasn't actually just 120 before, it was 120+120 because it works on their pet also which again, this tactic does not. So really atm Furious Mending does 4x more healing than this tactic with guaranteed 100% uptime. 5600 healing every minute from 1 tactic slot is a lot, especially on a class that can run away anytime it wants and use this to regen while in combat.
Prebuff it was still doing 2x the healing with more uptime, and if no one was using that tactic then because it needed a buff to be effective then seems obvious to me Da Smell Don't Bother Me is even more deserving of a buff.

Buff it to WL levels (or slightly higher to make up for the drawback of it not having 100% uptime, maybe no healing on the pet to balance that out and keep up with the theme of expendable squigs), put it in the melee tree so everyone pretending like the mastery point cost makes a difference can be satisfied (99% of melee SH's will have the spare points to take that tactic due to not caring at all about the ranged attack alternatives in other trees that they can't use in SA, and ranged SH will have no reason to take it anyways due to it's restriction, seems like it would honestly be a SH buff to put this in the tree since the only thing trading this with Ere Squiggy will do is make it easier for ranged to take Ere Squiggy).

You make a good point regarding it healing the pet, but we also have to paint the entire picture: squig pets work differently than WL pet. When Guardian WL pet is killed, the player is basically incapacitated for 15s. They have no real damage to speak of, they just have to try to avoid fighting until pet is back up. The same cannot be said for squiggy, though yes, horned pet is where a lot of their tankiness comes from. Melee SH however can still deal plenty of damage and utility when pet dies. Just painting the whole picture.

[Foomy44]

Spoiler:

Just want to point out that Da Smell Don't Bother Me only works when you are in squig armor while Furious Mending works 100% of the time. Getting locked out of your self healing tactic for 10 seconds every time you want to use your knockback or ranged snare (SA has a 10 second CD from when it is deactivated) is a pretty big drawback to a tactic that is already significantly weaker than it's mirrors.

Dansari says "It was already 120 before and it was completely unused. 120hp is 1400 every minute, which is like 1/6 of a Guardian WL hp pool."

Whelp, it wasn't actually just 120 before, it was 120+120 because it works on their pet also which again, this tactic does not. So really atm Furious Mending does 4x more healing than this tactic with guaranteed 100% uptime. 5600 healing every minute from 1 tactic slot is a lot, especially on a class that can run away anytime it wants and use this to regen while in combat.
Prebuff it was still doing 2x the healing with more uptime, and if no one was using that tactic then because it needed a buff to be effective then seems obvious to me Da Smell Don't Bother Me is even more deserving of a buff.

Buff it to WL levels (or slightly higher to make up for the drawback of it not having 100% uptime, maybe no healing on the pet to balance that out and keep up with the theme of expendable squigs), put it in the melee tree so everyone pretending like the mastery point cost makes a difference can be satisfied (99% of melee SH's will have the spare points to take that tactic due to not caring at all about the ranged attack alternatives in other trees that they can't use in SA, and ranged SH will have no reason to take it anyways due to it's restriction, seems like it would honestly be a SH buff to put this in the tree since the only thing trading this with Ere Squiggy will do is make it easier for ranged to take Ere Squiggy).

You make a good point regarding it healing the pet, but we also have to paint the entire picture: squig pets work differently than WL pet. When Guardian WL pet is killed, the player is basically incapacitated for 15s. They have no real damage to speak of, they just have to try to avoid fighting until pet is back up. The same cannot be said for squiggy, though yes, horned pet is where a lot of their tankiness comes from. Melee SH however can still deal plenty of damage and utility when pet dies. Just painting the whole picture.

I'm pretty sure SH pet is easier to kill than guardian WL pet, but aside from that I do agree with ya and don't really feel the pet healing needs to be mirrored, I think putting the self healing on this tactic slightly above 240 would make up for the no pet healing + drawback of not working in SA.

Still don't think I'd run it anywhere outside of solo roam or pug SCs with no healer, we got better defensive tactics that will end up mitigating more damage than that, and in small scale where these tactics shine WL tactic would still come out to significantly more overall healing.

[dansari]

I agree there are better tactics. I don't think guardian takes that tactic outside of solo roaming either. You've also got the self heal channel for panic moments but the reason I opened was because OP has a point regarding the difference in potency, while keeping in mind investment and yada yada. I guess question would then be, would moving Ere Squiggy to core buff defense potential for ranged SH if it doesn't necessarily need it? I'm all for equalizing tactics just not sure if it's a pressing issue.

Let's also be careful comparing to SM heal tactics since those require some action (SM hitting or group hitting a target) rather than passively for WL or passively-with-condition SH.

[peterthepan3]

closed