WLs are the new SHs

[Tesq]

I think that add all stats and then redistribuite will make just a npc with a player stats, so like a second player.
Gameplay-wise pet should be tools, so not so strong as wl player

I think also that pure scaling pet with wl can give some nasty problem in future if cap will be increased,
it would be better that pets get his own stats and get a x% from wl stats.
This gave a better controll over pets stats value range, but give even some type of customization
A x value for every stats and a x value for all 3 resistence.

You suggest to make lion only more offensively/resistent thx to stats but this way the pet can still be totaly get ingored, with a detaunt.
I dont think that solution to pet is "only" raise his stats. In each stance. That way the only stance that player would use would be the one that offer, taking in account carrier distibuition, the best damage x pet survability.
I think it would better offer diversisty rather than pure stats buff, that as i said it have some downside when you look at high levels and better caps.

Trained to Threaten: (support/debuff-buff)
It seems like pet want take the attention.. so what does it mean from a gameplay point of view?

-taunt
-challenge

pet while in this stance need to be able to taunt and challenge passively( they can be even lower value than tanks counterparts) aoe around him ( small area like 30-40 feet) thus this make wl a distration as increase friendly damage and reduces enemys damage all around him, that way it became a tool and not a second player.
It's not a dps machine still cannot be ingored, as his support role make all allies do more damage and all enemys do less damage.

Trained to Hunt's (support/cc)
Speed/hide/opening strike.... it's all regard this when you think about hunt. Make into a game this mean make wl should have his def based on more parry/dodge/disrupt than primary stats.
This is where he should have a damage reduction from aoe; to make him able to reach is prey even when under mass attacks
-note that this is when you want to throw the pet at your enemys. Pet that go away from player and chase the target recive a "hunt" damage boost while it's away from you, if you get near, the buff is lost.
-also the first strike the pet does need to be automaticaly a critical hit, also the hunt is renew after some seconds so every x second an auto crit hit should occur.

Trained to Kill's(suppor/dps)
Should be the more offensive of the pet stance but it need to be near the player.
Until it's at player side, lion recive a stacking offensive bonus . If it goes away the damage buff is lost and do not increase again until the pet return to your side. This stance should concern more offensive stats than gameplay.


3 way to play pet that should required 3 different stats values for me. Stats should be balanced around each stance and not generaly from player.

[Azarael]

I'd like to point out (since the comment has been made about not using 1:1 scaling for WL pets, which I think should always happen) that the pet is not a second player:

- It can only have 3 skills at a time, so its effectiveness does still tail off with tiers
- It must be commanded

The pet starts out as 1:1 with the master, and there's no real reason this should not persist as the master scales up.

Otherwise, the pet should indeed have worked much more towards its roles in PvP, though I'm not sure how this could be changed.

[Bozzax]

A straight % of WL stat by stat > pet is the simplest way.

Also if you think of kitten as a WLs second AA then it really needs to scale perfectly with the owner

So kitten gets
a % of WLs rank as rank
b % of WLs WS skill as WS
c % of WLs toughness as toughness
d % of WLs wounds as wounds
...
e % of WLs armor as army
f % of
...
k % of WLs to crit as to crit
...

Why?
1. Less is more, scales perfectly with the owner most other variants won't
2. Makes a pet mirror its masters training/gear/renown abilities tanky gets tanky pet, squishy get squishy pet*
3. The whole concept of tanking pets is not viable (in PvP)
4. If pets get to op change % and we are good to go

* The best part with this is that high damage == less survivability so it don't get to op

Another thing TTH + Pack Hunting is must regardless what you do with the TTXs unless the other tactics are reworked

[Tesq]

I'd like to point out (since the comment has been made about not using 1:1 scaling for WL pets, which I think should always happen) that the pet is not a second player:

- It can only have 3 skills at a time, so its effectiveness does still tail off with tiers
- It must be commanded

The pet starts out as 1:1 with the master, and there's no real reason this should not persist as the master scales up.

Otherwise, the pet should indeed have worked much more towards its roles in PvP, though I'm not sure how this could be changed.

well that's true it cannot spam like a player so 3 skill with cd and auto attack. I just fear the burst a 1:1 ratio could have.
Btw pet can still be detaunt while hit wl. It's a huge weakness that other pet classed dont have huge as wl

[Azarael]

You can look at that another way, and say that classes with ST detaunts can't detaunt the lion and the master at the same time.

[Bozzax]

Pet abilities should ideally trigger a gcd on WL as he/she commands the pet so no extra/free actions

[Luth]

Pet abilities should ideally trigger a gcd on WL

If this is done, i will completely deactivate any pet abilities all the time.
On the old server, i had the pet AOE ability on TTH permanantly deactivated, to avoid getting enemies thrown out of stagger.

[Azarael]

Pet abilities should ideally trigger a gcd on WL as he/she commands the pet so no extra/free actions

If you do that, you might as well delete the pet and move its skills directly onto the WL. There is little reason to maintain the pet mechanic if the idea of being able to attack two targets at once is nixed by a master's GCD on the pet's skills.

Remember, talking is a free action.

[Bozzax]

Kitten is there mainly for appearance and class coolness so lets not get to exited. Maybe that was a moment of confusion on my behalf. I think it could be either way really. No shared CDs obviously is better from a WL viewpoint but both has issues and beefing up the pets will expose them

Note kittens don't have 3 abilities as changing TTX is insta no ap and kitten debuffs are fairly long as well

[jonathanmurphy3]

It amazes me some people seem genuinely scared that the White Lion might become - dare I say it - on par with the other classes for once?!!!!111oneone