no more crying, lets play.

[Acidic]

This game has diviated so far from the AoR of old that's it's almost like a different game in terms of balance and design and one faction clearly came out worse for it

Did that faction really come out worse?
Does Destro actually lose in head to head matchups more?

City numbers (anecdotally) suggest not and are usually relatively balanced in final outcome.
Ranked ratings also suggest the faction as a whole can hold its own.
SCs (anecdotally once again) feel about the same.
Maybe Forts are actually harder for Destro now although hard to tell with new mechanics.
And we all (should) know that zone caps are mostly about "the will to win" also known as organization and numbers instead of metas and that may be where destro is lacking atm.

That is, some of the organized guilds (who could still dominate and do very well) are pissed off at X or Y or Z and have left b/c their favorite thing A, B or C was changed and they don't like it. Not that XYZ or ABC is unfair. They just don't like it. So now the faction more frequently gets run over in the lakes.

This is all about attitudes and changing tastes and, quite frankly, people just moving on b/c of other things.

As we do not have a useable way to get information on who is in forts or cities to make those stats anything other than fluffy “feels like” I looked at the mmr ratings per class

https://postimg.cc/JyS8fW7B

(Less than 10 games removed, so some classes not represented on both Destro and order)
The graph is median mmr (number of wins that was shown in season summary only shows mmr matching is working) , and median used to remove extremes of certain good/bad players to try and get what mmr an average player should expect.
Even if it is clear that 6v6 is not that representative of rvr is gives a strong indication of the classes.
You see directly that class 1 is well above the other classes, slayer and the big drop on class 13 is a Destro class .
So the only decent (half decent) quantative numbers show there is an order advantage

Big difference between slayer and Choppa in order favor
Big difference between SM and BO in order favor

Other classes in this statistics (not aoe considered as 6v6) seem within reasonable level

[TenTonHammer]

people just moving on b/c of other things.

You guys can only blame new world or classic wow (both of which are crashing and burning atm anyway and are having an exodus of players) or some other game , for so long with regards to the population drop.


None of the whole argument undermines my point that this game is no longer AoR and the devs should have just fixed the bugs from core and left it at that so that players could have just experienced AoR again which was the key reason people came to the server.

Instead people now play a game that filled with changes to key mechanics and classes based on the personal rampant biases of the devs that greatly deviate from original vision of the AoR

[Mordecaieth]

My own biased 2 cents.

Wiping all changes or #mythiclike would simply be counter productive to everything the team has achieved so far. We can also learn from #nochanges classic WoW.
(Yes I know they're different games and I won't engage you in an argument on that topic.)

A healthy way to start pulling players back in? Developers need to start balancing again. Class changes, revert or work around the one trick ponies (KoBs being all tank no spank, RP/Zeal locked into heals). Back in February we were told we could have expected a Slayer/Choppa rework, although not high priority- we were still told to expect something in this QNA where they laid out a sort of roadmap for the emulator for the year.


Click here to watch on YouTube
1:15:47 mark is where the possibility of a "rework" would be done. I know there is no signifying statements saying they would have buffed/nerfed or done anything. But we are being given these time frames, and we are only seeing longer and longer wait times, people are getting tired of waiting. Anyone wondering what happened to Zarbix?

This was 8 months ago. A change or rework regarding "flaws" of the classes, with chop/slayer on deck. This sparked major hope for a potentially proper single target burst for both classes and could be a game changer in the scenarios/ranked scens... Yet here we are... idling all these months later, we have only seen abilities become specific to certain playstyles, tweaked to provide less bonus, or removed from the game entirely.

Spoiler:

(ex. engi/magus nerf, Vigilance becoming SNB only, removal of dps tactics from kobs and chosen, the way the shadow warrior was re-tweaked meticulously while the ranged squig was slapped with buffs and seemingly forgotten from that point on, the obscure push to make certain classes into "one trick ponies" a class only being capable of a singular role. Zealot/RP/KoBs fall into this heavily.)

TLDR; There is more fundamental class balancing to do, there always has been. We've fallen into a trend where there is slowly more removed from the classes than there has been put back into it. All except the WP/DoK.

[penagos22]

A healthy way to start pulling players back in? Developers need to start balancing again. Class changes, revert or work around the one trick ponies (KoBs being all tank no spank, RP/Zeal locked into heals). Back in February we were told we could have expected a Slayer/Choppa rework, although not high priority- we were still told to expect something in this QNA where they laid out a sort of roadmap for the emulator for the year.

What a good balance, What a good balance, ways to play, that someone can find fun, like kotbs dps or RP dps, discarded. Basically you say that much progress has been made but that one option is to reverse that work ..... it does not make sense also that does not end the problem of community toxicity towards devs due to the issue of balance and the influence of this problem on the population and satisfaction with the game.
I remind you that the project is still in the alpha phase because the devs are stuck in an impossible task and that everything that is done in terms of balance always displeases someone, also if you want I will make you a complete post about why the game does not It was conceived so that both parts work the same but that each one works with what they have.
At this point, it is more than evident that the solution is to wipe everything, because there are people who simply do not understand and will continue to complain instead of playing.

[Mordecaieth]

A healthy way to start pulling players back in? Developers need to start balancing again. Class changes, revert or work around the one trick ponies (KoBs being all tank no spank, RP/Zeal locked into heals). Back in February we were told we could have expected a Slayer/Choppa rework, although not high priority- we were still told to expect something in this QNA where they laid out a sort of roadmap for the emulator for the year.

What a good balance, What a good balance, ways to play, that someone can find fun, like kotbs dps or RP dps, discarded. Basically you say that much progress has been made but that one option is to reverse that work ..... it does not make sense also that does not end the problem of community toxicity towards devs due to the issue of balance and the influence of this problem on the population and satisfaction with the game.

The "progress" I was referring have been the dwarf/orc cities, implementation of HV, reworks for ranked, the inactive lair bosses becoming active again. I cannot try to seriously reply to this because your wording and sentence structure is extremely confusing. I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing but any "progress" I spoke about is mostly related to city, fort, the very occasional RvR change (not including the nerf to BO ticks.)

[penagos22]

A healthy way to start pulling players back in? Developers need to start balancing again. Class changes, revert or work around the one trick ponies (KoBs being all tank no spank, RP/Zeal locked into heals). Back in February we were told we could have expected a Slayer/Choppa rework, although not high priority- we were still told to expect something in this QNA where they laid out a sort of roadmap for the emulator for the year.

What a good balance, What a good balance, ways to play, that someone can find fun, like kotbs dps or RP dps, discarded. Basically you say that much progress has been made but that one option is to reverse that work ..... it does not make sense also that does not end the problem of community toxicity towards devs due to the issue of balance and the influence of this problem on the population and satisfaction with the game.

The only "progress" that has been made have been the dwarf/orc cities, implementation of HV, reworks for ranked, the inactive lair bosses becoming active again. I cannot try to seriously reply to this because your wording and sentence structure is extremely confusing.

im sorry, english its not my native language XD

I remind you that the project is still in the alpha phase because the devs are stuck in an impossible task and that everything that is done in terms of balance always displeases someone, also if you want I will make you a complete post about why the game does not It was conceived so that both parts work the same but that each one works with what they have.
At this point, it is more than evident that the solution is to wipe everything, because there are people who simply do not understand and will continue to complain instead of playing.

Also- I love people who reply to me but do not take all of my points in consideration. Just the one point that they personally have a problem with and then they fight against it with the effort of a D+ english student.

[Parallell86]

WHs in Conqueror does equal damage to my RR 8x choppa with over 70% armor penetration and 1100 strenght. They can also get 100% parry with a single ability which also does really good damage, and prolong the 100% parry with Confusing Movements morale for a total of 12 seconds.

WHs compete with fully geared RR80's when they have conqueror. Not that they beat me, but leaving my health scary low. Also noticed that I with 9k health is forced to use healing potions to come out of the encounter. Is this balance? Why are we farming high end gear when some classes just outperform you with the lowest T4 set?

AOE Slayers has alot more burst while choppas are stuck channeling for one damage tick at a time (and get constantly interrupted left with no damage output). Not balanced.

Slayers melt fully sov geared tanks because of defense bypass on everything they hit during Rampage. Choppa block/parry debuff is ST and has a 60 second CD. Not balanced.

"OMG you noob, drop da basha and Rampage are not the same thing." Not they are not. But the effect is the same and we're mirror classes, only the one thing choppa has to compare with the slayer doesnt come close to the Slayers power level. Alas we dont come close to the slayer in performance.

I stop crying when changes are made. Destro are leaving either for rerolling order or quitting the game. It's a little more than crying dont you think? Staff needs to do something or Order realm can have their PVE days and dressup sessions alone.

[penagos22]

A healthy way to start pulling players back in? Developers need to start balancing again. Class changes, revert or work around the one trick ponies (KoBs being all tank no spank, RP/Zeal locked into heals). Back in February we were told we could have expected a Slayer/Choppa rework, although not high priority- we were still told to expect something in this QNA where they laid out a sort of roadmap for the emulator for the year.

What a good balance, What a good balance, ways to play, that someone can find fun, like kotbs dps or RP dps, discarded. Basically you say that much progress has been made but that one option is to reverse that work ..... it does not make sense also that does not end the problem of community toxicity towards devs due to the issue of balance and the influence of this problem on the population and satisfaction with the game.

The "progress" I was referring have been the dwarf/orc cities, implementation of HV, reworks for ranked, the inactive lair bosses becoming active again. I cannot try to seriously reply to this because your wording and sentence structure is extremely confusing. I can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing but any "progress" I spoke about is mostly related to city, fort, the very occasional RvR change (not including the nerf to BO ticks.)

sorry, english its not my native language (sorry for reply twice)

I remind you that the project is still in the alpha phase because the devs are stuck in an impossible task and that everything that is done in terms of balance always displeases someone, also if you want I will make you a complete post about why the game does not It was conceived so that both parts work the same but that each one works with what they have.
At this point, it is more than evident that the solution is to wipe everything, because there are people who simply do not understand and will continue to complain instead of playing.

[Mordecaieth]

What a good balance, What a good balance, ways to play, that someone can find fun, like kotbs dps or RP dps, discarded. Basically you say that much progress has been made but that one option is to reverse that work ..... it does not make sense also that does not end the problem of community toxicity towards devs due to the issue of balance and the influence of this problem on the population and satisfaction with the game.

The only "progress" that has been made have been the dwarf/orc cities, implementation of HV, reworks for ranked, the inactive lair bosses becoming active again. I cannot try to seriously reply to this because your wording and sentence structure is extremely confusing.

im sorry, english its not my native language XD

I remind you that the project is still in the alpha phase because the devs are stuck in an impossible task and that everything that is done in terms of balance always displeases someone, also if you want I will make you a complete post about why the game does not It was conceived so that both parts work the same but that each one works with what they have.
At this point, it is more than evident that the solution is to wipe everything, because there are people who simply do not understand and will continue to complain instead of playing.

Also- I love people who reply to me but do not take all of my points in consideration. Just the one point that they personally have a problem with and then they fight against it with the effort of a D+ english student.

Sorry, that was a bit rude of me. But yes, you have a point, but I will agree to disagree and personally believe that the game is not "unsalvageable" because an ex staff member believes so.

[penagos22]

The only "progress" that has been made have been the dwarf/orc cities, implementation of HV, reworks for ranked, the inactive lair bosses becoming active again. I cannot try to seriously reply to this because your wording and sentence structure is extremely confusing.

im sorry, english its not my native language XD

I remind you that the project is still in the alpha phase because the devs are stuck in an impossible task and that everything that is done in terms of balance always displeases someone, also if you want I will make you a complete post about why the game does not It was conceived so that both parts work the same but that each one works with what they have.
At this point, it is more than evident that the solution is to wipe everything, because there are people who simply do not understand and will continue to complain instead of playing.

Also- I love people who reply to me but do not take all of my points in consideration. Just the one point that they personally have a problem with and then they fight against it with the effort of a D+ english student.

Sorry, that was a bit rude of me. But yes, you have a point, but I will agree to disagree and personally believe that the game is not "unsalvageable" because an ex staff member believes so.

I did not quote the rest of the post because it did not seem relevant to me in the discussion, although I respect and read everything.
The problem is not trying to balance the game, the problem is: no matter how the devs try to balance the game, someone will not like it, this person will get frustrated, he will come to the forum to complain and get banned or the he will continue playing but he will not enjoy it or stop playing.
What do I suggest? to return to the mythic balance and not talk about this issue any more (anyone who comes claiming balance we are all going to say no because it is mythiclike), then when people have no one to blame they will play and the devs will advance in the development of RoR.

sorry i do my best here with my english XDD