Population cap for attackers during forts

[diedrake]

Limiting the attackers on a fort like parallel stated was never brought up when zones favored order i have to agree with that.

IMO system should not force punish players for playing the dominant side and limiting amount of attackers, if defenders chose not to join. For instance, say 140 attackers and 80 defenders get slots, and say 30 defenders say f it and not join. System should not punish the attackers because defenders don't wish to fight.

Does it make it unfun for both sides? yes, as attackers have no fights and defenders hide in fort, and defenders if run out get mowed down by zerg. Sorry, but that's just how RvR is, its a free for all.

If players want a fair fight, run SCs. Or other option is to have players that are playing the dominant side decide to voluntarily switch sides for fort. But 2nd idea, most players won't do, because its an easy keep/fort take, and every gamer I have ever known will usually take the easiest path to gear up.

RvR is not designed to be fair 100% of the time at all hours of gameplay. It changes depending on each hour of the day. IMO that's what makes RvR fun for me. Heck, for all we know in a month time or so, who knows Order might be dominating again in late hours of US time.

[Parallell86]

You had to realise by now there is a portion of players who organise or are organised. Who jump from side to side. But there is also a portion of players who roam casually not taking part of the organised gameplay at all, they wont sit through the 'being farmed into the ground' sessions with a smile. They gonna follow the tide, when numbers flip against them and they fear they wont get what they came for, they jump the fence too. So a 24 man can drag another 20 with them.

And I have to say it, this topic wouldnt excist if it was the other way around. This fort was in destro's favour. Now it's a problem. It wasn't a problem for Order players when the zerging was in their favour.

I will be speechless the day an order player creates a topic saying "We outnumbered destro 140 to 50 in fort."

Thank the warhammer gods, these topics are always created by order players!

They are so yea.

[Josewales]

Wait, wasn't it not that long ago where it was 100+ Order vs about 20 destro several times a day in forts? I remember IC being invaded 2-3 times in a 24 hour period by Order, and Order had nothing to say about it except "organize warbands" which of course is the dumbest thing you can say when out numbered that badly. It makes no sense. Suddenly those same players are now asking for changes that benefit them while ignoring the original problem when it was Destro's and it benefitted them? Talk about hypocrisy.

The dev's aren't going to make adjustments, their own words and you can find them here on the forums if you dig far enough. But, then you are on Order and when Order complains enough magically things get changed when it was a hard no otherwise. So, I suppose you can keep complaining, hopefully the answer stays a hard no for a while though. Destro went through over half a year of this crap and it was perfectly fine in the Order mind. Don't expect many Destro to suddenly jump on that bandwagon to support you after they got screwed for 2/3 of a year+ they'll ride the wave while they've got it before admitting a change needs to be made simply because they were held back so long before.

And Destro benefited the most from the Order driven Cities. Nice try with that example. Pee is not rain. Enjoy your easy mode.

[Aethilmar]

Limiting the attackers on a fort like parallel stated was never brought up when zones favored order i have to agree with that.

IMO system should not force punish players for playing the dominant side and limiting amount of attackers, if defenders chose not to join. For instance, say 140 attackers and 80 defenders get slots, and say 30 defenders say f it and not join. System should not punish the attackers because defenders don't wish to fight.

Does it make it unfun for both sides? yes, as attackers have no fights and defenders hide in fort, and defenders if run out get mowed down by zerg. Sorry, but that's just how RvR is, its a free for all.

If players want a fair fight, run SCs. Or other option is to have players that are playing the dominant side decide to voluntarily switch sides for fort. But 2nd idea, most players won't do, because its an easy keep/fort take, and every gamer I have ever known will usually take the easiest path to gear up.

RvR is not designed to be fair 100% of the time at all hours of gameplay. It changes depending on each hour of the day. IMO that's what makes RvR fun for me. Heck, for all we know in a month time or so, who knows Order might be dominating again in late hours of US time.

The reward system does not have to be set up to actively encourage it. There was already a built-in incentive for zerging before the latest changes with a (slight) counter-incentive around city queues.

Now with the new weekly there is an additional active reward for steamrolling and no counter-incentive. It was not hard to guess what would happen next.

People keep talking as though this is an Order vs Destro thing or an issue of payback for imagined slights. It isn't. It is an issue of making things fun for both sides (even the losing one). And if it is not rectified it will eventually erode the player base.

[utopi]

A few changes would fix the Zerg problem, and make the game more then PV-Door in oRVR.

1) The city siege 3rd stage champion system should be active for 3-6 players on the defending / lower population side within a castle/fort. They are limited to the inner castle only. This should be based on a % ratio of attackers vs defensive. On a 4+ star keep it should always be active on one player when a guild owns the keep, and it has to be a member from that guild.

2) When pushing a zone like praag, the next zones keeps should be locked out for 30-1 hr so that the losing side has a way to rank up their keep. This prevents the zerg from bum rushing the forts PV-Door style.

[Emissary]

So the next available mechanic for counter-zerging is to re-institute the cap on maximum attackers for fort to be what it used to be. Feel free to zerg away to push fort but give defenders on the under-populated realm (whoever it may be at the moment) some chance to actually fight back.

There's been no change to the fort population caps in more than a year.

The issue is that it is handing out reservation to both sides, but then a lot of the defenders that get reservations don't show up, while a higher percentage of the attackers that get reservations show up.

Is there a fix for this "issue"? Say after a certain amount of time players just get kicked back out?

[Stahn123]

Wait, wasn't it not that long ago where it was 100+ Order vs about 20 destro several times a day in forts? I remember IC being invaded 2-3 times in a 24 hour period by Order, and Order had nothing to say about it except "organize warbands" which of course is the dumbest thing you can say when out numbered that badly. It makes no sense. Suddenly those same players are now asking for changes that benefit them while ignoring the original problem when it was Destro's and it benefitted them? Talk about hypocrisy.

The dev's aren't going to make adjustments, their own words and you can find them here on the forums if you dig far enough. But, then you are on Order and when Order complains enough magically things get changed when it was a hard no otherwise. So, I suppose you can keep complaining, hopefully the answer stays a hard no for a while though. Destro went through over half a year of this crap and it was perfectly fine in the Order mind. Don't expect many Destro to suddenly jump on that bandwagon to support you after they got screwed for 2/3 of a year+ they'll ride the wave while they've got it before admitting a change needs to be made simply because they were held back so long before.

And Destro benefited the most from the Order driven Cities. Nice try with that example. Pee is not rain. Enjoy your easy mode.

Not to be a jerk, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would anyone be here complaining about the issue if what you say is true? You are ridiculous.

[Meliannia]

1. And I have to say it, this topic wouldnt exist if it was the other way around. This fort was in destro's favour. Now it's a problem. It wasn't a problem for Order players when the zerging was in their favour.

2.I will be speechless the day an order player creates a topic saying "We outnumbered destro 140 to 50 in fort."

1. For the 17th time CET GMT Order never had the zerg OR the numbers. THis was NA west coast Order who used to take all the zones forts keeps cities and the gear, for weeks on end this happened at 2.30am til 4.30am for GMT CET Order so we never got any benefits we were ASLEEP from this Order one sided faceroll fest that you destro guys had to endure and bring up on an almost daily basis on forums. CET GMT ORDER we... didn't.... benefit.... from..... this.
CET GMT Order have ALWAYS been heavily outnumbered by Destro mainly due to guillds such as FMJ and Freebooterz and their allies playing 200 active members combined all day long every day in our timezone, weve had this for 3 YEARS and it's getting worse every week.

2. I've also said 36 times I would speak out if destro were 35% vs 65% all week long, ive said 36 times in numerous threads population imbalance is bad no matter which way it is, ive said 36 times, i dont want to win 10 hours in a row 65% vs 35% or 20 scenarios in a row 500-0 47kills to 0, and i don't want to lose 10hrs straight 35 %vs 65% or 20 scens straight 0-500

i have always been consistent with this line of argument, i'd like equalish numbers fun close competitive razor edge fights, win 8 to 12 out of 20, lose 8 to 12 out of 20 500 vs 450, 450 vs 500, 42 kills to 38. 38 Kills to 42, Pop faction capped at 59% for BOTH factions if either of them approach 60%

People with a SELF gain > All attitude dont seem to be able to process that there are players who care about fun and close fights and the game's health and not care about faceroll 'winning' by stomping disheartened quititng victims all day long.

If the game doesnt die due to Order quitting and it indeed turns around like many of you Destro fellas have been saying for months (even tho what's actually happening is its getting worse and worse, aided and abetted by this vile zergloving new weekly but ok... ill humour you guys and pretend your'e right and the population will switch and ebb and flow) and you are right and then it is destro who start being dismantled in cities, Land of the dead, scens, zone populations all day long, ill be the first Order player to speak out and stand side by side with any Ethical fair minded destro players and say it is not good or healthy for the game Order roflstompign destro with insane number imbalance all day long. If that DOES happen then Watch this space.

Hopefully there will be no 18th time, and no 37th time, but I seriously doubt it.

Safe travels,

'Swords In The Wind!"

The Mel.

[Sugaree]

31 vs 142 right now at fort.... regardless of your faction, this is fine right?

[Shogun4138]

It wasn't a problem when Order did it for a year, but now its is.