The best CC kits in a tank, why?

[tazdingo]

Not easy bro? Aall attacks received and delivered increase hatred, you have to be kidding me.

no i don't. having to wait 1 - 2 GCDs to go from middling to 90 hate can mean a missed punt. if you think you're running around at 100 hate for free all of the time you have never played bg

Oh man... ok to you stay safe...

if you want to see a nerf in the extremely long standing class defining abilities of a particular class, make some effort to explain why. IB sucks, everyone knows IB sucks, but that means we should fix IB, not nerf BG

[GONDOR]

90 hate is not easily accessible. if you want to build to it in small scale then that's what you're doing for the next 5 to 10 seconds

Not easy bro? Aall attacks received and delivered increase hatred, you have to be kidding me.

no i don't. having to wait 1 - 2 GCDs to go from middling to 90 hate can mean a missed punt. if you think you're running around at 100 hate for free all of the time you have never played bg

2-3 GCDs to go from middling hate to 90... man what I wouldn't give for grudge to be 2-3 GCDs for the same effect, instead of 15 grudge.

[Xameleon]

I think BG is in a perfect spot in terms of "fun" and "versatility", not in "balance" necessarily. All his specs are viable in all game modes. Want to play utility debuffer in oRvR? Go for 2h with a bit defensive tactics. Want to be SnB in 6v6? Here is THE STRONGEST ST CC in the game, both punt and KD + cooldown reducer and insane steroids. You got the idea, you can play anywhere how you like and be effective and useful. It may not be true for other tanks, that's why BG feels unbalanced. Everyone envy his toolkit, because they lack one of their own.

What if SM got 7 second KD? It requires, for example, to have shield, to block an attack in last 5 seconds and for you to attack target at least 5 times? Does it feel balanced to you? According to people saying, that building a hate on BG is quite troublesome, I can see this new spell being quite balanced in that regard. It has a lot of handicap mechanics, you cannot stun someone on demand, etc.

I feel like this spell would be total bullshit. The most UNfun way to die - is when you can do absolutely nothing against it. Getting 5 second stun feels like "screw YOU in particular" type of event, let alone be stunned for 7 seconds. What is even more infuriating is that one side is completely lacking that type of "screw YOU in particular" spell. Enemies are flexing with cool spells and you don't even have an option or analog to spec something like it and do same **** to them they are doing to you.

I feel like this is the problem. I would really want to get something, that is similar to BG ST KD or punt (moon punts are cool, but I want long range low arc one), but I don't even have an option. It's just... not available. Not with 100 grudge, not with 5 attacks and block in last 5 second. We don't need THE SAME tool, we just need an option to spec something similar. I would really love to KD a shammy for 7 seconds to be honest, even if it takes 30 seconds to setup and gives 70 second immunities.

[Apocaliptico]

I think BG is in a perfect spot in terms of "fun" and "versatility", not in "balance" necessarily. All his specs are viable in all game modes. Want to play utility debuffer in oRvR? Go for 2h with a bit defensive tactics. Want to be SnB in 6v6? Here is THE STRONGEST ST CC in the game, both punt and KD + cooldown reducer and insane steroids. You got the idea, you can play anywhere how you like and be effective and useful. It may not be true for other tanks, that's why BG feels unbalanced. Everyone envy his toolkit, because they lack one of their own.

What if SM got 7 second KD? It requires, for example, to have shield, to block an attack in last 5 seconds and for you to attack target at least 5 times? Does it feel balanced to you? According to people saying, that building a hate on BG is quite troublesome, I can see this new spell being quite balanced in that regard. It has a lot of handicap mechanics, you cannot stun someone on demand, etc.

I feel like this spell would be total bullshit. The most UNfun way to die - is when you can do absolutely nothing against it. Getting 5 second stun feels like "screw YOU in particular" type of event, let alone be stunned for 7 seconds. What is even more infuriating is that one side is completely lacking that type of "screw YOU in particular" spell. Enemies are flexing with cool spells and you don't even have an option or analog to spec something like it and do same **** to them they are doing to you.

I feel like this is the problem. I would really want to get something, that is similar to BG ST KD or punt (moon punts are cool, but I want long range low arc one), but I don't even have an option. It's just... not available. Not with 100 grudge, not with 5 attacks and block in last 5 second. We don't need THE SAME tool, we just need an option to spec something similar. I would really love to KD a shammy for 7 seconds to be honest, even if it takes 30 seconds to setup and gives 70 second immunities.

That's exactly what it's about. It doesn't make sense for a faction to have so much versatility, options for different types of punches, KB and the like. For example, besides BG having the two best CCs for himself, who else on the blue side can run and pull other players around? Or which other class can I choose to stand at a SC event flag and throw everyone away without activating immunity?

These are things like this that need to be better analyzed, not just justifying that this is how it is because it was decided a long time ago!

What was the reason for nerfing BW KD, because he had a KD of 3sec? Why didn't the sorc have the same CC? I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why they took the 5sec KD from the IB and gave it to the BG a years... they never answered this question with a plausible explanation!

[Apocaliptico]

no i don't. having to wait 1 - 2 GCDs to go from middling to 90 hate can mean a missed punt. if you think you're running around at 100 hate for free all of the time you have never played bg

Oh man... ok to you stay safe...

if you want to see a nerf in the extremely long standing class defining abilities of a particular class, make some effort to explain why. IB sucks, everyone knows IB sucks, but that means we should fix IB, not nerf BG

You are very worried about some kind of nerf in your class, you know how perfect it is and you are afraid of that happening. I tell you to stay calm, that won't happen. We're talking about why, and how about you help think about improvements to balance things out more, suggest some ideas on how and who in the order can have a super punt? Or perhaps return KD5seg to IB?

Stay calm please.

[Xameleon]

That's exactly what it's about. It doesn't make sense for a faction to have so much versatility, options for different types of punches, KB and the like. For example, besides BG having the two best CCs for himself, who else on the blue side can run and pull other players around? Or which other class can I choose to stand at a SC event flag and throw everyone away without activating immunity?

I feel your frustration about one side being much more interesting and fun in terms of options they have. But I cannot agree with you when you say "It doesn't make sense for faction to have versatility and options". I actually think it's quite awesome that destro has this tools. They are indeed fun and entertaining to use. I just think order side should have some interesting tools as well. Not necessarily the same ones, but interesting and fun nevertheless.

What are destro defining abilities? GTDC, Covenant of Celerity, Mara pull and KD, BG giga KD/punt, Winds of Insanity, insanely large BOrcs with "U WOT?", shamans outrunning Bugatti Chiron with RUN AWAY! and other fun stuff. All of them are fun to use (except CoC, this spell is cancer), but not necessarily fun to play against.

What are order defining abilities? KotBS heal aura? Man, what a fun spell that is! (/s) Maybe Rampage? Well, this spell is in ruins. Funnel power? Another passive, just a damage boost, I see no fun in using it(although damage boost is always welcome). Perhaps Wall of darting steel? Same story as Rampage. I think order have WP passive +20% heal on defense proc, but i fail to see fun of using it as well. Inevitable Doom is a good one and it's indeed rather run to use.

As you can see, order has a ton of "this tactic or spell gives you +20% damage or healing. That's it", at the same time destro has really fun buttons. I would trade +20% heal boost tactic on my WP for much more interesting ability like Winds of Insanity. It will probably decrease my healing output but I don't give a damn. Class would become so much more fun to play.

Don't nerf or take away destro class defining abilities. Give some to order! #7sKDtoSM

[Dackjanielz]

That's exactly what it's about. It doesn't make sense for a faction to have so much versatility, options for different types of punches, KB and the like. For example, besides BG having the two best CCs for himself, who else on the blue side can run and pull other players around? Or which other class can I choose to stand at a SC event flag and throw everyone away without activating immunity?

I feel your frustration about one side being much more interesting and fun in terms of options they have. But I cannot agree with you when you say "It doesn't make sense for faction to have versatility and options". I actually think it's quite awesome that destro has this tools. They are indeed fun and entertaining to use. I just think order side should have some interesting tools as well. Not necessarily the same ones, but interesting and fun nevertheless.

What are destro defining abilities? GTDC, Covenant of Celerity, Mara pull and KD, BG giga KD/punt, Winds of Insanity, insanely large BOrcs with "U WOT?", shamans outrunning Bugatti Chiron with RUN AWAY! and other fun stuff. All of them are fun to use (except CoC, this spell is cancer), but not necessarily fun to play against.

What are order defining abilities? KotBS heal aura? Man, what a fun spell that is! (/s) Maybe Rampage? Well, this spell is in ruins. Funnel power? Another passive, just a damage boost, I see no fun in using it(although damage boost is always welcome). Perhaps Wall of darting steel? Same story as Rampage. I think order have WP passive +20% heal on defense proc, but i fail to see fun of using it as well. Inevitable Doom is a good one and it's indeed rather run to use.

As you can see, order has a ton of "this tactic or spell gives you +20% damage or healing. That's it", at the same time destro has really fun buttons. I would trade +20% heal boost tactic on my WP for much more interesting ability like Winds of Insanity. It will probably decrease my healing output but I don't give a damn. Class would become so much more fun to play.

Don't nerf or take away destro class defining abilities. Give some to order! #7sKDtoSM

lol literally in another thread someone said that order has some abilities that destro doesnt and when i asked what those were he never gave an answer.

The list of things destro gets that order doesn't is a mile long, both in terms of fun and functionality - its not even comparable.

[Stimpz]

Spoiler:

That's exactly what it's about. It doesn't make sense for a faction to have so much versatility, options for different types of punches, KB and the like. For example, besides BG having the two best CCs for himself, who else on the blue side can run and pull other players around? Or which other class can I choose to stand at a SC event flag and throw everyone away without activating immunity?

I feel your frustration about one side being much more interesting and fun in terms of options they have. But I cannot agree with you when you say "It doesn't make sense for faction to have versatility and options". I actually think it's quite awesome that destro has this tools. They are indeed fun and entertaining to use. I just think order side should have some interesting tools as well. Not necessarily the same ones, but interesting and fun nevertheless.

What are destro defining abilities? GTDC, Covenant of Celerity, Mara pull and KD, BG giga KD/punt, Winds of Insanity, insanely large BOrcs with "U WOT?", shamans outrunning Bugatti Chiron with RUN AWAY! and other fun stuff. All of them are fun to use (except CoC, this spell is cancer), but not necessarily fun to play against.

What are order defining abilities? KotBS heal aura? Man, what a fun spell that is! (/s) Maybe Rampage? Well, this spell is in ruins. Funnel power? Another passive, just a damage boost, I see no fun in using it(although damage boost is always welcome). Perhaps Wall of darting steel? Same story as Rampage. I think order have WP passive +20% heal on defense proc, but i fail to see fun of using it as well. Inevitable Doom is a good one and it's indeed rather run to use.

As you can see, order has a ton of "this tactic or spell gives you +20% damage or healing. That's it", at the same time destro has really fun buttons. I would trade +20% heal boost tactic on my WP for much more interesting ability like Winds of Insanity. It will probably decrease my healing output but I don't give a damn. Class would become so much more fun to play.

Don't nerf or take away destro class defining abilities. Give some to order! #7sKDtoSM

lol literally in another thread someone said that order has some abilities that destro doesnt and when i asked what those were he never gave an answer.

The list of things destro gets that order doesn't is a mile long, both in terms of fun and functionality - its not even comparable.

That's because they locked the post an hour after you asked.

[Apocaliptico]

That's exactly what it's about. It doesn't make sense for a faction to have so much versatility, options for different types of punches, KB and the like. For example, besides BG having the two best CCs for himself, who else on the blue side can run and pull other players around? Or which other class can I choose to stand at a SC event flag and throw everyone away without activating immunity?

I feel your frustration about one side being much more interesting and fun in terms of options they have. But I cannot agree with you when you say "It doesn't make sense for faction to have versatility and options". I actually think it's quite awesome that destro has this tools. They are indeed fun and entertaining to use. I just think order side should have some interesting tools as well. Not necessarily the same ones, but interesting and fun nevertheless.

What are destro defining abilities? GTDC, Covenant of Celerity, Mara pull and KD, BG giga KD/punt, Winds of Insanity, insanely large BOrcs with "U WOT?", shamans outrunning Bugatti Chiron with RUN AWAY! and other fun stuff. All of them are fun to use (except CoC, this spell is cancer), but not necessarily fun to play against.

What are order defining abilities? KotBS heal aura? Man, what a fun spell that is! (/s) Maybe Rampage? Well, this spell is in ruins. Funnel power? Another passive, just a damage boost, I see no fun in using it(although damage boost is always welcome). Perhaps Wall of darting steel? Same story as Rampage. I think order have WP passive +20% heal on defense proc, but i fail to see fun of using it as well. Inevitable Doom is a good one and it's indeed rather run to use.

As you can see, order has a ton of "this tactic or spell gives you +20% damage or healing. That's it", at the same time destro has really fun buttons. I would trade +20% heal boost tactic on my WP for much more interesting ability like Winds of Insanity. It will probably decrease my healing output but I don't give a damn. Class would become so much more fun to play.

Don't nerf or take away destro class defining abilities. Give some to order! #7sKDtoSM

Yes! Sorry for my English, I couldn't explain it, but that's exactly it, I meant that it didn't make sense for just one faction to have this whole range of options while the other seems to be so normal, boring, without so much fun...

[CyunUnderis]

lol literally in another thread someone said that order has some abilities that destro doesnt and when i asked what those were he never gave an answer.

The list of things destro gets that order doesn't is a mile long, both in terms of fun and functionality - its not even comparable.

The thread was lock so I didn't have the time to answer you.

Here is the list of interesting skills to mention that Order has but not Destruction (I will not list KD/punt difference) :

Spoiler:

All Dwarves

- Stoutness of Stone
- Ancestral Inheritance



- Ancestor Fury (10% crit for IB & Oath Friend)
- Oathbound (20% parry for IB & Oath Friend)
- Powered Etching (AoE punt + 30% snare on Rune-Etched Axe)
- Avenging the Debt (Remove snares on IB & Oath Friend)
- Told Ya So! (AP pump for the party)
- Watch An' Learn (WS buff for IB + AP pump for Oath Friend)
- Stubborn As Stone (buff Corporal Resistance for IB & Oath Friend + buff % attack speed for IB - bug so Oath Friend also got the buff speed)



- Rampage (buff strikethrough)
- Inevitable Doom (AoE pulse)
- Untouchable (M1 - 5sc 100% defenses)
- Fierced Smite (% damage crit the lower the HP Slayer has)
- Push For More (% attack speed depending on Rage)
- Gudrun's Warcry (party buff that reduce AP cost for 20sc)
- Spellbreaker (for the 2H enjoyer ...)



- Rune of Battle (AoE pulse on target)
- Extended Battle (Increase AoE radius on Rune of Battle & Rune of Cleaving)
- Ancestor's Blessing (AP pump - Zealot also has it BUT Runepriest has in it in the good tree)
- Immolating Grasp (for the ST RP DPS enjoyer : snare on DoT - it has been bug during a long time where healers were not able to cleanse it because it was a damage type)



- Cannon Smash (M3 - 1k8 damage + 1k4 armor debuff)
- Strafing Run (ranged AoE punt)
- Bugman's Best (small party heal HoT)
- Armor-Piercing Rounds (25% penetration armor buff - 10sc)
- Thunderer (10% penetration + AA on the move)
- If you compare to the mirror class Magus : the capacity to AA



- Excommunicate (M4 - 1k8 AoE damage + 15sc no heal possible on target)
- Repel Blasphemy (5sc 100% parry)
- Burn Armor (AoE armor debuff - that was stacking with Rune of Cleaving's Armor debuff tactic but it has been ninja nerf or bugged)
- Encourage Confession (5% more crit on target with Bullet of Confession)
- Exit Wound (Damage + debuff WS/Strenght/Toughness)
- Burn Away Lies (DoT + Explosion)



- Focused Mending (+15% heal on party)
- Destroy Confidence (Shatter enchantment + blessing)
- Laurel's of Victory (-20% crit damage for the party)
- Dirty Tricks (+5% crit for the party)
- Vigilance (50% reduction of damage taken)
- On Your Guard! (party reflect melee damage)
- Runefang (WS/Strength on parry)
- Slice Through (AoE snare - has been nerfed)
- Solar Flare (M4 - 1k2 damage & -1k8 morale)
- Emperor's Champion (M2 240 Toughness/Strength/Wounds)



- The Burning Head (M4 - 1k8 AoE damage & 2k4 ST damage & -600 morale)
- Funnel Power
- Flashfire (Instant cast on disrupt)
- Fueled From Withing (Boost procs damage)
- Burn Through (Undefendable Fireball + Pyroclastic Surge)
- Stop, Drop, And Roll (ST KD)
- Smoldering Embers (chance to reapply Ignite, Boiling Blood and Slow Boil)
- Wildfire (DoT on AoE spells)



- Sigmar's Grace (party wounds buff)
- Prayer Of Devotion (heal on hit - not totally like the DoK)
- Leading the Prayer (self heal on Prayer of Devotion heal)
- Sigmar's Shield (Heal on hit)
- Divine Aegis (M1 - Talon counter)
- Exalted Defenses (20% bonus heal on defense)



- Winds of Heaven (M2 - jump + AoE snare)
- Bladeshield (M3 - Absorb + reflect 600 damage)
- Wall of Darting Steel (+ % defense channel)
- Crushing Advance (AoE interrupt)
- Blessing of Heaven (HoT on marked target)
- Intimidating Blow (debuff morale ST)
- The capacity to have Whispering Wind + Vaul's Tempering where you need 2 tanks for that Destruction side



- Echoing Roar (360° AoE interrupt - the Marauder has a 180° AoE interrupt that is currently bug)
- Leonine Frenzy (pet immunity + damage/hit where SH only has a % bonus damage)



- Enchanted Arrows (ignore resistances on FA)
- Guerilla Training (boost speed on switch stance)
- Barrage (morale drain on Vengeance)
- Lileath's Arrow (AoE 65ft damage)
- Split Arrows (reduce ranged on SFA & BHA but they are AoE)
- Takedown (KD on Vengeance)
- Leading Shots (% crit party buff)



- Bolstering Boon (Realm moral pump)
- Funnel Essence (ST Heal channel)
- Golden Aura (Immunity on Shield)
- Blinding Light (M2 - 1sc build cast - even for melee)
- Mistress of The Marsh (AoE debuff init part - same for the AoE snare)
- Transfer Magic (AoE AP drain)
- Run Between Worlds (15sc CD AoE detaunt)

Again, maybe I miss some skills worth to mention, but you have a good idea of the differences between each realm.

Sorry for the off topic