[Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

[dansari]

"Moving Pounce up to 13pt Axeman was viewed as an essential change so as not to allow warband WLs the opportunity to wreak havoc in a backline"

To be clear, that's not necessarily our current stance on Pounce, it was the stance taken via the Woodsman patch. Going to politi-fy my answer again and say that we haven't discussed melee squig yet, so can't tell you the direction we're taking with that. Other classes taking precedent atm.

[dansari]

We plan to make the pet an integral part of the gameplay, and instead of dropping it completely in warband play we will at least attempt to find creative ways to include it (though again, we can't promise that the pet will exist in warband specs if it is proven to be too difficult to balance around -- the promise is that we will traverse every path in which to respect the theme of the class before going down an alternate path).

Just to clarify does this mean you are planning to remove Loner builds as a viable way to play? Just want to know so I stop playing my WL now rather than in 3 months.

No, the goal isn't to remove Loner as a viable way to play; we just don't want it being the only way to play.

[kweedko]

And don't reverted "Ritual of Innervation" good reverts mates, good reverts. Actually not.

[poffo]

Great initiative

[dansari]

And don't reverted "Ritual of Innervation" good reverts mates, good reverts. Actually not.

Ritual of Innervation was grossly overperforming in destro melee trains (as it was activating a chance to regain AP on every autoattack plus ability). Mirroring it was the correct approach. If you have AP issues as a dps zealot, we can find ways to address those in other ways. For the time being, double AP pot should be the way to go.

Great initiative

When are the SW buffs in scout-line coming?

No timeline right now.

[poffo]

And don't reverted "Ritual of Innervation" good reverts mates, good reverts. Actually not.

Ritual of Innervation was grossly overperforming in destro melee trains (as it was activating a chance to regain AP on every autoattack plus ability). Mirroring it was the correct approach. If you have AP issues as a dps zealot, we can find ways to address those in other ways. For the time being, double AP pot should be the way to go.

Great initiative

When are the SW buffs in scout-line coming?

No timeline right now.

Thanks a lot for your replay.

[Zxul]

Ok guys, good direction and good changes.

Just plz don't mess up with the stats on new armor sets.

[Mausini]

Thanks for the letter. Good step into the right direction.

Can you now send me 200 Gold for changing all my Tails again, for the 3 time now? I have no clue how to afford that without spending a lot of time in farming gold that I actually wanted to use for playing the "core" game.

Thats getting odd somehow.

I know that sucks. That's certainly not our intent, but an inevitable byproduct of the changes we've done. Might I suggest apothecary/cultivating? It's a pretty rewarding, easy craft path.

Sure. In the time i have leveled that up I could also farm the gold somehow...
Intent or not intent, this is a quiet obvious byproduct of your changes. I may also note that prices for Talis are going to skyrocket in the next days because all WL will need some Talis again.

Responsibility does not end at the code.

From a customer perspective that changes are quiet a mess. Not because you need to adopt your play style but because of the time invested to put everything in place again, equip wise. Right now I am not sure if this time is worth it because there are going to be, again, changes and then I might need to rearrange Talis and stuff again and again and again. (For the 4. or 5. time)
I am ok with that if there is some character/gear progression, thats part of the game.
But simply whipping all the afford away that I put into my character (RR61) and then suggesting me to spec Apo/Cult for something that is completely out of my control does make me somehow angry.

But there are good news, the RoR team can fix that issue rather easy. Show some respect to the WL of the RoR community.

[dansari]

Sure. In the time i have leveled that up I could also farm the gold somehow...
Intent or not intent, this is a quiet obvious byproduct of your changes. I may also note that prices for Talis are going to skyrocket in the next days because all WL will need some Talis again.

Responsibility does not end at the code.

From a customer perspective that changes are quiet a mess. Not because you need to adopt your play style but because of the time invested to put everything in place again, equip wise. Right now I am not sure if this time is worth it because there are going to be, again, changes and then I might need to rearrange Talis and stuff again and again and again. (For the 4. or 5. time)
I am ok with that if there is some character/gear progression, thats part of the game.
But simply whipping all the afford away that I put into my character (RR61) and then suggesting me to spec Apo/Cult for something that is completely out of my control does make me somehow angry.

But there are good news, the RoR team can fix that issue rather easy. Show some respect to the WL of the RoR community.

Well, my suggestion wasn't meant as a slight. It's simply the easiest path to take if you want to make some extra gold. I totally get why you're angry; it's certainly a viable emotion to feel after your class has been messed with -- I know I would feel that way (but I'm a garbage WL, ask my guildies). We're going to do our best to make it better. That's, I think, the best I can give you at this stage.

[wonshot]

...Jon (peterthepan3) and I are taking point on balance changes going forward, working with the developers to implement changes (since neither of us code). We take feedback from the community,

So how exactly will this work, will it be based of forum suggestions, a handful of handpicked community members allowed further acces to debates about a balancing topic and if this is the case will said members be the same every time for each and every topic of conversation. My concirn here is that a few wellspoken individuals can manipulate and convince the whole game direction to be catering towards their desired playstyle. Either it being solo, 6man or warband. Or is everyone simply free to send Discord PMs to you two if we have suggestions or feedback. Guess what I am asking is for how this system will work without you get bombarded and we dont see any more powertrips on RoR.

... What this means: we will do our best to develop a class that has viable 6man and warband specs.

Cool glad to hear that, I hope this is trend we will see you work for all classes? It does seem a little odd how you for example make this change to revert the Warband viable WL spec and say it will be reworked for a furture functioning spec for largescale, and in the same patch buffs engineer singletarget when the class is hardly used in a largescale setting (see my concirn above about the overall direction is too focused in one area of play)

Moving Pounce up to 13pt Axeman was viewed as an essential change so as not to allow warband WLs the opportunity to wreak havoc in a backline, but it also removed easy access to the very real love that WL players have for having such mobility

But how about Melee SH with Badgass then, does this not do exactly this and to some extend even better and more impactful

Black Orc/SM Wee'z Bigger/Vaul's Tempering
This was grossly overperforming in warband, allowing 7s of being able to run through the enemy and drop morales. We are drastically reducing its potency in an effort of making it a more high skill, strategic ability rather than a fire-and-forget (given that you could keep 46% uptime on it with Whispering Winds, for example, did not make it strategic).

Overperforming in what sence exactly, did everyone spec into it because it was too much value(or simply new and exciting) From my gameplay experience with these immunities it actually required coordination and communication, plus a sence of forseeing a battle. I completly disagree with the arguement of these immunities could help you setup a moraldump, because of two reasons: a) Moral drains being a thing, and all semi organized warbands are running drains so morals are hardly going off before a fight is actually won. b) the CC immunties are blown on first impact of engagement, because if you get punted away, knocked down or snared you are simply on the backfoot so there is no safety to hold on to these immunity cooldowns and wait for a M2 razebomb.

Engineer Armor-Piercing Rounds
Strafing Run had no business being at 13pt Rifleman. As it is seen as an essential warband tool for engineers, we've moved it to core Tinkerer. In its place, developing a high cooldown buff for Rifleman seemed the best option, since there were potential powercreep issues with providing things like a ranged knockdown, a ranged slow, an unbreakable root, etc. This still provides counterplay to the Rifleman by LOSing him, but does give him a lethal buff to add to his arsenal. As with all things, we will assess how this develops going forward.

A good change, I do have my worries for poor destro who will have to face the Gunline Engineer focusfire teams since this is an individual buff to the engineer and therefor more engineers can add onto this via assisting, but lets see how it goes. Against as I mentioned earlier in this post, I hope you have a warband buff in the pipeline so engineers can move out of the category of only working in smallerscale rvr and scs.


This is by no means a post made to confront your every move, but I cant help feeling this patch was too narrowminded on fixing something longterm (WL) and then the overall current balance was forgotten in the process. AoE knockdown is not to be found on Orderside, we lost a frontliner and with the Destro supperior hand in displacement the lack of immunities will make this is pure Order warband nerf-patch. Cant wait to see what the future holds and what you will come up with though!