[Review] Guard at Level 5

[dansari]

Spoiler:

Again, this is more of a pug argument, and not really relevant. Competent players know the value of Guard: when to switch, when to drop it, etc. There is no evidence that competent players would not take advantage (and feel useful) if Guard was moved to lvl 5, and no evidence that their habits would change based on gaining a skill 5 levels earlier than before. However, there is ample evidence that competent players do not feel useful as a tank, in the current iteration of the game, until level 10 (2/3rds of time spent in T1) - Dan

Does that mean that new players - those in the limbo between pug and competent player - are being disregarded? First impression heavily impacts player retention, doesn't it?

As by your elaboration: 6ish SCs to level 5, this means that (new) players will get guard - should this proposal get through - within their first play session.

Judging by your argumentation you are focusing on <old players> strolling along on their alts or those that are disgruntled by the lack of competent tanks in later tiers.
Guard at level 10 is painful for old players, because they know about Guard before they start playing a tank/or pick up the game again, to begin with.

Guard at level 10 is a blessing for new players - again, regardless of competence - because they don't implode immediately... they have a grace period due to what little gear they could acquire during their first 10 levels, a basic grasp of the mechanics (much more: limitations of their class/realm) and a set/tidied up UI.

Negative feedback loop (through a clusterfuck of mechanics and lack thereof, aswell as - naturally - public chats [overly demanding Vets mining salt]), yadayada... there is a metalevel to this.
I am furiously spamming my anti-pug schtick in all the threads I touch, but this time around it isn't applicable, imho ~

The focus of your quote of mine was primarily responding to the idea that new players will use Guard, hate Guard, and never use it again at lvl 40 as a justification for not moving it to level 5 to begin with. *If* you're a competent player, at level 40, this is a moot point. My viewpoint is that first impressions matter greatly, and if someone rolls a tank because they want to soak damage for their party and aren't able to until level 10 (which, for a new player, can be after ~3-4 play sessions, depending on how long you're playing and how active the tier is), then they may give up on the class, but admittedly that's just an opinion and I've no evidence for it.

Can anyone show an actual avoidance difference at levels 5 and 10 for tanks? My understanding is that the bolster already accounts for this.

[diedrake]

Bring it in, but vet players will prob not use guard untill at least lvl 8 or even lvl 9 as at these lvls a tank is in a 2 piece set and possibly green gear for shoulders/ helm. Plus have tallis socketed in them. At which point the tank can soak damage.

If tank guard and posibly taunt comes about at lvl 5, so should all the other iconic abilities for other archtypes. M Dps get charge/ snarebreak, healers get rez. I forget the iconic abil' s for rdps though been a while sense i lvled one.

[diedrake]

Lvl 5 tanks gear usually only weapon/ shield starter gear if tank didnt do anything pve.

Lvl 10 tank 2pc set 4 trinks gloves belt, shoulder/helm if you know the AH or random drops.

Idk if bolster, bolsters empty gear slots :/
Hense why my previous post a vet will prob not use guard at lvl 5 but rather at lvl 8 or 9

[wargrimnir]

Lvl 5 tanks gear usually only weapon/ shield starter gear if tank didnt do anything pve.

Lvl 10 tank 2pc set 4 trinks gloves belt, shoulder/helm if you know the AH or random drops.

Idk if bolster, bolsters empty gear slots :/
Hense why my previous post a vet will prob not use guard at lvl 5 but rather at lvl 8 or 9

There is low rank renown gear available from the vendor in the warcamps. If they do no PvE they would be picking those up. There is white PvE gear available at chapter camp merchants as well, for each slot. Assuming competent play, you wouldn't need to enter PvP with basic starter gear, and bolster would improve your armor significantly, which is primarily where guard damage is applied against. Any player that wanders into RvR with basic starter gear is going to be punished, this isn't something I would consider competent play.

[szejoza]

and bolster would improve your armor significantly, which is primarily where guard damage is applied against

Guard deals unmitigated damage, only parry/block can mitigate damage recieved by tank

[diedrake]

Even white gear and the lvl 5 green weapons i dont think is enough to help midigate damage from guard although even with jist weapons running around naked still soft capped toughness.

I admit though that i dont notice the difference in all white gear plus 2 green weapons, or just green weapons; somone that os lvl 10 or above is still going to nuke ya if ur guarding that low lvl.

Either way, devs will do what they wish, this isnt a vote thing as they have stated b4. It Will be fun though taking out lvl 5 tanks and tgier guarded partner of course unless its a lvl 10 ish healer with them.

[darude83]

I'm in favor of this proposal. There are no real downsides, let the tanks have guard at lvl 5.

[peterthepan3]

I'm in favor of this proposal. There are no real downsides, let the tanks have guard at lvl 5.

Elaborate.

[Penril]

Guard is one of the strongest skills in the game. My guess is that tanks get it at level 10 because, on live, they would move on to T2 pretty much immediately (level 11 or 12?) and there are several counters to guard there (heal debuffs, more KDs, a few punts, etc.) that simply don't exist in T1.

If you insist on moving guard to level 5, then you should also think of a viable counter to it. Specially considering how strong some classes can be in T1 when guarded (DPS Dok/WP).

[CountTalabecland]

Low level gear plus soft caps from bolster should be enough to justify early guard. Tanks have literally nothing to do at low level other than use snare and run 2h for nominal damage. Especially in low pop T1 like Dwarf and Elf a snb tank just kind of stands there. Healers can heal, dps can damage from level 1 but a tank cannot really tank w/o guard.