[Implementation Feedback] RvR design

[Osred]

Heres an idea to defeat funnels. Most likely brought up before.

Sappers. NPCs that open up the postern door for limited periods. Read on for details

- These are NPCs that spawn at the keep at level 5.
- Limited to 2 at a time
- Guild Warband must be 3 to 4 full groups in size to activate
- Second requirement is that the outer door to the enemy keep must be down and the keep is starved to level 2 or 1
- They must be activated by Guild Warbands (rank 20)
- They must be escorted from the keep to the enemy postern
- Once there the postern opens up to the warband
- The guild/warband has 1 minute of a window to attack through the postern

This is intended to be used by organised warbands that wont waste the sapper, spread out the funnel to guard posterns. Adds another dynamic to the keep offense.

[Tesq]

Heres an idea to defeat funnels. Most likely brought up before.

Sappers. NPCs that open up the postern door for limited periods. Read on for details

- These are NPCs that spawn at the keep at level 5.
- Limited to 2 at a time
- Guild Warband must be 3 to 4 full groups in size to activate
- Second requirement is that the outer door to the enemy keep must be down and the keep is starved to level 2 or 1
- They must be activated by Guild Warbands (rank 20)
- They must be escorted from the keep to the enemy postern
- Once there the postern opens up to the warband
- The guild/warband has 1 minute of a window to attack through the postern

This is intended to be used by organised warbands that wont waste the sapper, spread out the funnel to guard posterns. Adds another dynamic to the keep offense.

ok but not 1 wb in enemy back just like that, should be some kind of proportion between ppl in rvr lake

[bloodi]

Again, Kadrin has been the zone to fight in for 24 hours, not faction is able to break the other funnel, hell, just as before the patch people are just waiting for the other faction to put themselves in a losing position by attacking a keep, suddenly that a lvl 2 keep of destruction has 2-3 warbands inside that didnt even bother to orvr at all funneling it and reaping rewards, in a couple of hours destruction will try to attack and fail. With luck some of the US night crew will cap and we will be able to fight in aa different zone for a while tomorrow.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, give us something to break funnels, forget everything else, just give us something that breaks this monotony of refusing to fight to then farm at a door using aoe.

Please.

[Osred]

see above suggestion

[Theseus]

Again, Kadrin has been the zone to fight in for 24 hours, not faction is able to break the other funnel, hell, just as before the patch people are just waiting for the other faction to put themselves in a losing position by attacking a keep, suddenly that a lvl 2 keep of destruction has 2-3 warbands inside that didnt even bother to orvr at all funneling it and reaping rewards, in a couple of hours destruction will try to attack and fail. With luck some of the US night crew will cap and we will be able to fight in aa different zone for a while tomorrow.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, give us something to break funnels, forget everything else, just give us something that breaks this monotony of refusing to fight to then farm at a door using aoe.

Please.

The problem is, how should that work. You would need something, that woul let you gert over the walls with your whole warband, without taking the walls. Hm I dont have alot of Ideas how that would work. Oh well I would have a lot of brillian ideas to be honest. I just dont think they are implementable.... or at least not at the time being. Something like ladders, Siege Towers and so on. I guess is possible, it only will be with client control.

[dur3al]

How about you disable cannons and let the game as it was before? For me it seemed way easier to break funnels without cannons in the last oRvR system.. The only funnels I saw back in the day who were unbreakable was when there were very high populations, so no matter how many you killed they'd still make it back to the keep running from WC before the funnel was broken.

The problem with anti-funnel systems or weapons such as cannons, is that it can be used on both sides, and the higher populated side will always have more resources.

And if you make any other funnel-breaking mechanic to strong, then there will be no reason at all to defend any place since its guaranteed victory to the high populated side -> leading to more zerg play -> leading even more to x-realming.

A keep should be difficult to take, to stop the zerg ball effect I mentioned above, but you've to let players create such strategies using their own classes's skills... even as cheesy as it is, it's always be part of Warhammer if you ask me.

A good solution would be to remove Keeps from the objective of locking zone as I explained in previous posts... or if you could change the terrain of keeps in order to have different entry points, and you'd still have the issue of funneling inner anyway so..

Another thing that comes to mind is that if you could increase the cooldown on ressing skills from healers if they're inside a keep... like add 2 min for all classes inside the range of keep, in order to make funnel pushes and moral dumping (the natural counter to funnels) be effective, and as much players you kill the higher is your chance to finally break the funnel.

[faiden]

The KV is a hard zone to take order keep in as is other zones. Order can easily take the Bo supply and repair the door/ammunition. They have the same short distance from the BO to Warcamp or the Keep. They got cannons at both location and a postern facing the BO. Destruction have a really hard time either standing and defending the ram or either disrupt the supply carrier. But defending both is almost an impossibility. The ammunition you get from the resource should be on the same calculation based on how far the BO is from keep/wc.

[Telen]

You'll never break up the zerg and never stop players going for the easier route. All the changes have done is make people zerg, xrealm and keep camp more than ever. All we need now is mailbox in the keep.

[dur3al]

I believe if you require a "zerg buster mechanic" its already in the game, its moral dumping, it shouldn't be limited to players so you could effectively kill 20+ people in the same radius with a good one, that's how we did it back in the day anyway.

[Azarael]

1) How is it easier to break funnels in the last RvR system? Cannons have an ammo limit. At worst, you have cannons and they don't.

2) Morale dumping is a shining example of something that cuts both ways. Can a few people do it? Yes. Can a zerg do it right back to you and do it a lot better than you can? Oh dear me, yes. I'm pretty sure I remember all the fun of the fair in T2 and T3 with two of the bigger guilds at that time, when it was demonstrated that if you have bomb warbands, you are still going to get blown to **** by a bigger group of bomb warbands using the same morale dump tactics that you are. That bombing works just as well for annihilating smaller opposition, which is a persistent complaint about cannons. It's amazing how people think morale bombing is anything other than a slight step up from miscalibrated cannons.

So, no, I won't be removing cannons. They are there to ruin massive engagements outright. The problem is, as ever, that situations arise where the cannons are actually effective at all, and that's because of RvR flaws. Accordingly, I will be focusing on general RvR mechanics first and different mechanics for cannons second when it comes to present congestion problems. There are things about the current cannon mechanics that I don't like, so expect them to change somewhat, but their intent will be to ruin zerg. However ineffective you may think they are at accomplishing that intent now,, that is what they will remain to do, with mechanics more refined towards that goal.

3) I'm not blind. I can see what's going on in KV and in this topic. That I'm not replying doesn't mean the input here is being ignored. Wait, code doesn't grow on trees.