BG Dark Protector / Feeding on Weakness

[Bozzax]

Problem: weak buffs and mostly redundant debuffs:
BG currently suffers from not being in demand in groups partially because the only unique buff the class brings is a willpower buff (with limited uses). The BG toughness buff typically is masked by the much more reliable toughness buff of Chosen. One could argue BG is a pure debuffer and therefore should not have buffs but since most are covered by a mdps it don't add up unless BG buffs are enhanced.

IB on the other hand bring something unique to a group in terms of added survivability for the Oathfriend. An ini buff on top of a strong 25% melee avoidance buff gives added survivability to a level which normally is reserved for tactics. (IBs Corp, armor, (toughness) buffs are solid even though they are masked by KOTBs or potions).

Proposal:
Make Feeding on Weakness buff DPs toughness 50,75,150,225,300 from hate (similar to BS willpower buff). Add a reasonable CD.

This would give BG a similar value as an IB in a group without changing the feel/theme of the class, make the BG tougher (DP only buff) or mirror IBs parry/ini ability.

[Penril]

You fail to identify the issue ("Oath friend is better than Dark Protector" doesn't really tell us anything).

You have around 2 weeks to edit this proposal (while we wait for the other ones to be closed) or else I will have to decline it.

[Penril]

Moving to discussions.

[peterthepan3]

destro has an abundance of toughness debuffs (dps dok, BO if spec'd, mara, BG, shaman via tactic), and the BG has 1 already, so I don't think it would add much in the way of variety.

Also must bear in mind that it is in the Loathing tree which is, by design, a defensively-orientated spec.

[TenTonHammer]

Don't forget choppa slasha toughness debuff

[Tesq]

i disagree with both introduces a toughness buff and also a very hard toughness debuff,

the very first reason is that BG do not need more tool in quantity but more tool in quality/economy.

-Add the n^11111 tool and make other useless and also debuff even more the enemy dosen't seems a solution to BG problems.
Also it dosen't at all fix the flaw in the path design

-Introduces a toughness buff will make a 13pt shammy skill uselss or even worst (strong) give a passive advantage to destru party high enough as a m4 always active (ex: with 300 pt of toughness from both sh/bg it wil be easier keep buff 6 ppl) this will only results in close weakness that keep classes like mara/Dok on the border to be too hard to kill. Viceversa if lower than shammy it will be the n^1111 buff which is inferior to another one (common BG problem)

-introduces a very high toughness debuff as shammy could be horrible for scenarios balance where classes as tank would get totally wreck easier(for being a tank) or cloth classes that stack toughness to avoid heavy armor debuff would be made severly hard/impossible to play.

Spoiler:

suggestion i was not able to do about feeding on weakness before it was moved:
every mastery have 1 skill with 1 tactic associate with it, the weak element of the mid mastery is hatefull strike which is a pve skill. Feeding on weakness is a good skill designed that got jimped by not be in the place of hatefull strike by proc the toughness tactic and by have a CD.

Feeding on weakness should see his CD removed,see his heal adjusted if need and proc the toughness tactic, this way BG will be able to gain acces to a common heal component like other tank (early in the game) with out actually loose time for that (atm you have to hatefull trike + feeding on weakness ) and also benefith his dark protector; it also have trade off with healing debuff (as suck atk haste can be debuffed to bring it back to normal in fleft mastery)


murderous wrath + wounds debuff give ya
-dmg+ armor ingore on the hit
-wounds debuff
-procable auto attack haste

hatefull strike+ toughness tactic give ya
-dmg+agro ( feeading on weakness will give dmg+heal or regen)
-max 45% toughness buff

mind killer + soul killer tactic
-dmg +int/willpowe
-out H-debuff

This will actually be a soft buff and will fix hatefull strike dmg+agro into a dmg+ heal(or regen you choice)
instead just give 1 hard tool to BG which is full in quantity of tool but lack synergy and skills economy.

Ok, you disagree with OP and already explained your reasons. Let's wait and see if someone debunks you. If you want to make a different proposal though, you will need to create your own in the Proposals forum - Penril.

[Toldavf]

I some what worry about giving a dps class to much toughness. Certainly this may be an attractive option for Choppers as it would offset their low toughness it wont make much of a difference, its not a level of mitigation that will stop you dieing but it will prevent you from ever hitting zero and be quite usefule in any trading situation. The same goes for witch elf to a lesser extent.

Now to the really problem with the suggestion the marauder. Even in a full offensive setup this buff would give me 500 toughness at max or realistically around 380-400 after debuffs, coupled with medium armour and decent resistances that's a heck of a lot of mitigation probably to much i think.

Rdps wise Squig and sorc fit into the same category as chopper and witch elf and while a utility magus with a full defensive build would make a good lightning rod its with the toughness buff balance wise that's neither here not there.

Healers wise the buff does some what tread on the toes of shaman as their toughness hot is currently the largest toughness buff that can be given to another player. All healers would enjoy the extra mitigation when being focused dok especially would become even tankier which is kinda not a direction i think we should be pushing the game in. Dps dok would really shine even more as its whole "thing" is dealing constant dps while being a very hard target to drop and i don't think it would be a good idea to make it harder to kill.

And finally tanks the 2nd tank could really benefit the most here weirdly. With no need to slot toughness thanks to a really high buff they can bring more offence something im sure some tanks would love. I however already consider the dps on certain tanks to be to high so i would really rather not see this.

@Penril it would be pitiless strike you adjust for the toughness debuff.

My personal opinion is that the core abilities on Black guard are good And the only things that need looking are the cool downs on its cc and the amount of ap drained by crushing anger.

[Penril]

Enough with the toughness debuff, I edited my post. Dayum...

[Bozzax]

I some what worry about giving a dps class to much toughness

What about giving a dps class 25% parry and initiative?

This is one of the biggest reasons why IBs are in demand and BGs aren't

[Bozzax]

destro has an abundance of toughness debuffs (dps dok, BO if spec'd, mara, BG, shaman via tactic), and the BG has 1 already, so I don't think it would add much in the way of variety.

Also must bear in mind that it is in the Loathing tree which is, by design, a defensively-orientated spec.

It is a toughness buff for your DP to give more survivability just like IB buff oathie with 25% parry and initiative, toughness, armor ...