Chosen are underperforming vs Kotbs in group play

[Esperflame]

The easiest fix they could do for chosen is to remove the internal cooldown they added on Bane Shield that made Dire Shielding useless. They added the ICD when they had dots being individually resisted because dots were proccing procs which made bane shield overperform. Dire Shielding is supposed to punish aoe. It's also the reason why Bane Shield only causes damage on successful hit unlike the kobs version that punishes for just swinging at the knight. This was the nerf that made me stop playing my chosen because I refuse to go 2h Chosen and they ruined the SnB chosen.

[shaggyboomboom]

Spoiler:

No. SH pounce is mirroed with SW teleport. WL pounce or SM jump have no mirror on destro. If u count is 3 jump vs 1.





Kobs "Arcing swing" is CORE 120 wounds debuff to all who hit. If u spend 8 skill points u get tactic for make targets 10% more chnce get crited.

BG needs 14 skill points spend and use 30 hate for the chance be crited. For the wounds debuff u need spend 12 points for the tactic and make a crit. Dunno where u see a mirror here. Kobs 8 skill points needed. BG 15 points.
U need other 30 hate for Furious Howl...

Chosen wounds debuff is 75 value and need a Discordant aura on.





Not even close to a mirror. Make chosen get 15% more heals (for 12 skill points used) is nice for PvE, since chosen is hited by mobs. In rvr who hit a tank? Make all team get 10% more heals for 8 skill points used is just lol. Remember only order gets wounds buff... (that also sux big time, since "DoK only toy" where group cleanse and it where given free to order after lot of forum crys with no wounds buff from "WP only toy" to destro)





a) Very usefull WP buff on chosen for 14 skill points...
b) 50 dmg reduction vs 15% dmg reduction...
c) since armour buff dont stack with pot make it very poor buff

Kobs also gets AE snare for 4 skill points, where chosen get 40 AP drain... Again BG needs 10 skill points for that, with 20 sec CD vs 5 sec CD

Kobs gets No Scape, that is not olny a unbreakable AE root, is one more moral 1200 dmg to bomb, where chosen dont get anything like that (or any other destro class, while WL also gets a unbreakable root for 10 sec vs mara version of 5 sec)

Following this, kobs is better version of 2 destro tanks... That also can drain all moral from enemies in fortess push.

Im not big fan of full mirror classes, but give all easymode toys to 1 side (not only to kobs) kinda sux. I come from DAOC, my think is skills mush be > class buffs to win and ofc battles mush be in game, not in forums.

this is half wrong basically

What part?

1)BG's crit increase is (big word inc) uncleansable, while arcing swing is cleansable
2) arcing swing is only 120 if you spec left tree all the way to m4. and its 2h only. also its a narrow frontal cone, while chosen's debuff is 360 degrees
3)SH pounce is mirrored to WL, not SW
4) >"since "DoK only toy" where group cleanse and it where given free to order after lot of forum crys with no wounds buff from "WP only toy" to destro"
what was given for free to order? dok's procs allow for dps dok to be immensely powerfull

[Detangler]

Lol chosen wounds debuff is 20 foot range aoe. Don't act like cause its 360 degrees that its anywhere near as good as KotBS

[bctakhy]

Spoiler:

this is half wrong basically

What part?

1)BG's crit increase is (big word inc) uncleansable, while arcing swing is cleansable
2) arcing swing is only 120 if you spec left tree all the way to m4. and its 2h only. also its a narrow frontal cone, while chosen's debuff is 360 degrees
3)SH pounce is mirrored to WL, not SW
4) >"since "DoK only toy" where group cleanse and it where given free to order after lot of forum crys with no wounds buff from "WP only toy" to destro"
what was given for free to order? dok's procs allow for dps dok to be immensely powerfull

1) I say again, BG need spend 14 points for chance be crited (not crit increase, dont have that stuff on destro) vs core skill.
BG have same req of 2h for it.
For 8 kill points kobs gets wounds debuff to all who get hited + chance get crited Vs 15 skill points for same be crited debuff and wounds debuff IF u crit, plus cost hate. It will be total usules if u sped 14 skill points + hate in a thing that can be cleanse.

2) tbh, i dont loged in to my kobs or BG or chosen and respec it to check values, i just check on career builder and that is what it say. Anyway, chosen one have low range and skill needs use of Discordant aura to aply.

3) SH pounce is mirrored to WL only if u compare the FX. The real mirror is SW since both skills are the melee stance of a ballistic RDPS. Now that u say, one more time order version is better, since it gets u next to u target, with semi stealth (vs a jump that all can clear see) and it also come with a defense buff... with no CD vs 10 sec CD... and SW dont need pet alive to get the stance buffs.

4) Ye, very usefull a DPS DoK when u can give u all u group a wounds buff that also can be used as heal.

[Wdova]

What part?

1)BG's crit increase is (big word inc) uncleansable, while arcing swing is cleansable
2) arcing swing is only 120 if you spec left tree all the way to m4. and its 2h only. also its a narrow frontal cone, while chosen's debuff is 360 degrees
3)SH pounce is mirrored to WL, not SW
4) >"since "DoK only toy" where group cleanse and it where given free to order after lot of forum crys with no wounds buff from "WP only toy" to destro"
what was given for free to order? dok's procs allow for dps dok to be immensely powerfull

1) I say again, BG need spend 14 points for chance be crited (not crit increase, dont have that stuff on destro) vs core skill.
BG have same req of 2h for it.
For 8 kill points kobs gets wounds debuff to all who get hited + chance get crited Vs 15 skill points for same be crited debuff and wounds debuff IF u crit, plus cost hate. It will be total usules if u sped 14 skill points + hate in a thing that can be cleanse.

2) tbh, i dont loged in to my kobs or BG or chosen and respec it to check values, i just check on career builder and that is what it say. Anyway, chosen one have low range and skill needs use of Discordant aura to aply.

3) SH pounce is mirrored to WL only if u compare the FX. The real mirror is SW since both skills are the melee stance of a ballistic RDPS. Now that u say, one more time order version is better, since it gets u next to u target, with semi stealth (vs a jump that all can clear see) and it also come with a defense buff... with no CD vs 10 sec CD... and SW dont need pet alive to get the stance buffs.

4) Ye, very usefull a DPS DoK when u can give u all u group a wounds buff that also can be used as heal.

So basicaly You admit that destro has the same tools, but not on direct mirrors And must spec for it while some order ones are core. 30 hate is Back in like 2 seconds if You guard mdps in frontline so argument skill cost something is irelevant. It start to smell like whine my friend.

Some ppl will whine about order "opnes" even if order classes got hands cutt off And run naked. Its ok, there should be healty hate on both sides.

[Tesq]

points spent for bg 2h are not an argument, its matter of how many tool and quality you can have in the x or y build.

[herooftime]

It seems to me like there are 5 main issues that will have to be resolved in the balance forums separately to help improve our under performing class:

1. Embrace the Winds vs Focused Mending
Embrace the Winds takes a 12pt investment into path of dread and only gives 15% more healing to the Chosen. Focused Mending is only an 8pt investment and gives 15% more healing to all groupmates within 100ft with the only caveat being that you have to have the Stay Focused! aura activated. The Chosen tactic is strictly worse and more expensive. A much as I hate mirroring classes I think this is the one exception of an ability that needs mirroring.

2. Oppressing Blows vs Overpowering Swing
Both tactics require 8pts in there respective dps mastery trees, but the Chosen version is significantly worse. Oppressing Blows gives the Chosen 15% more crit when wielding a great weapon. It is a fine tactic and directly increases the Chosen's dps. Yes it gives 5% more crit than the Knight equivalent, but it only increases one tanks already low damage. Overpowering Swing makes any enemy hit by Arcing Swing 10% likely to be crit. Yes Oppressing Blows doesnt need an ability to activate the tactic, but Arcing Swing is already an amazing ability with incredible group utility, reduces its targets wounds by a whopping 120. The first tactic gives crit to a support class that already has a low base crit, the second gives crit to everyone including the dps classes that will burn through targets with 10% extra crit. This is a tough ability to balance, on one hand we want both classes to be unique, but on the other, the Overpowering Swings is insanely better for the party in a team based game. One solution might be to attach Oppression Blows effects to Rending Blade. Rending Blade is a 14pt ability that only deals a small about of damage to anyone in a small radius of 25ft.

3. Oppression vs Vigilance
Vigilance reduces all incoming damage by 50% for 10s every 30s without restrictions. Oppression reduces damage taken only by 15% for 10s every 20s and increases armor by 618 for 20s, but requires a parry or block to activate. Most players are already running armor potions which do not stack with the 618 armor you get from the ability. There is no question on which the better ability, One decreases incoming damage by 50% every 30s and the other 15% every 20s. Letting the armor buff stack with pots might be a step in the right direction or reducing the cool down of Oppression to 15s.

4. Discordant Turbulence vs Now's Our Chance!
Both abilities are 25% heal debuffs at a 6pt investment each with one key difference. The Knight ability Now's Our Chance! affects outgoing heals while the Discordant Turbulence affects incoming heals. Normally this wouldn't be too much of an issue, but the respective heal debuffs stack. Knights can double heal debuff with mdps classes that debuff incoming damage. Chosen are stuck heal debuffing the same targets their mdps are and killing targets much slower. The best solution would be to mirror the abilities since the Knight equivalent is strictly better.

5. ???? vs Solar Flare
Chosen have nothing close to the utility the Solar Flare gives in large scale combat. This huge over sight is lop siding the Faction balance. The closest thing Destro gets is a Mara tactic which pales in comparison. Solar Flare should either be toned down or mirrored.

[zgolec]

"4. Solar Flare: Needs to be mirror'd to Chosen for fort play."

Give aoe morale drain to aoe spec loner WL to mirror mara, mkay? ;p Aoe WL is joke. Lets mirror all the good **** mara haz since there are plans for some major nerfs for WL st, oks?

Actually lets make classes exact mirrors of opossites with just different skins, yay ;p

[Lime]

The purpose of my post was simply to point out that the destro utility tank was lacking utility. It is my opinion having played both knight and chosen to rr65+ the Chosen is weaker than the knight in all levels of play, 6 man, and warband/fort play.

What utility that would be is debatable but should have a direct survival and damage boost to the group.

[Tesq]

The purpose of my post was simply to point out that the destro utility tank was lacking utility. It is my opinion having played both knight and chosen to rr65+ the Chosen is weaker than the knight in all levels of play, 6 man, and warband/fort play.

What utility that would be is debatable but should have a direct survival and damage boost to the group.

Nah,

Chosen do more dmg in small scale compared to kobs, and in rvr it have heal.debuff aura.

That said kobs stuff did not alll recived the nerf it need when the crits tactic were first nerfed. Focus mending tactic is of course out in value it need 50% cut as all other tactic has been nerfed on kobs especially since it stack with runy one....and wp one....sigh...

Vigilance is just slight better than what should be (45%). Oppression suck not for armor buff component (its over 900 so it's better than a 660 pot but well as any other armoe buff in game on tank) is just the dmg resuction component not being in line. Thats it.

Rest of stuff is in common like super punt tactic being better on 2h (so now 2h kobs have all eggs in 1 basket)

Plus Chosen have no 2h peculiar tactic ...for that just revert and fix cripple strike stacking....brain dead change...

And stag ap cost for bothis a joke

And blast wave ap cost is even a more of a joke....