I’m not opposed to try thing at all, it’s better than theorycraftingTenTonHammer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:04 pmMirror rampage and ID just try it for like 2 weeks
What’s the worst that happens? The mid tree and AoE is sufficiently unique and you get to remove every complaint about GTDC and remove the faction pull Imbalance
Slayer keeps its 50% aa haste advantage and choppa has the crit
Because at the end of the day keep out side of the concept of choppa as a class being you better have a group and armor debuff or you will be garbage
Keep on choppin YGS and GTDC are basically the only real issues
Choppa's problems
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Re: Choppa's problems
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Re: Choppa's problems
Sounds good to meadapter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:09 pmWell if that's the case i may take some time to expose the unbalance and propose something (maybe)
Re: Choppa's problems
Spoiler:
Crit tactic works for every ability - for AoE as well, you know that perfectly - mirroring ID and rampage whilst leaving 25% crit damage would create an op monster. Mirror them, but remove crit tactic permanently.
Also, ID + chop fasta by itself would create a 1 person ID spam machine, without requiring any additional teammate.
Abilities and tactics are spread and distributed for a reason.
Re: Choppa's problems
Yes, because Slayer tactic named Fierce Might is not even close to 25% crit, instead it depends on your health bar giving you a +10% up to +90% crit bonus damage...Reesh wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:49 pmAA haste is not an advantage that requires 75 mechanic points to truly open up (and works only on single target of course), vs 25% crit damage at any stance in a mechanic.Spoiler:
Crit tactic works for every ability - for AoE as well, you know that perfectly - mirroring ID and rampage whilst leaving 25% crit damage would create an op monster. Mirror them, but remove crit tactic permanently.
Also, ID + chop fasta by itself would create a 1 person ID spam machine, without requiring any additional teammate.
Abilities and tactics are spread and distributed for a reason.
Kabuchop / Kabusquig / Kabuterimon / Tentomon
Re: Choppa's problems
Spoiler:
It's a trash an unusable tactic and you know that.
At the same time, don't compare speccable tactic without any use to universal core one.
- TenTonHammer
- Posts: 3807
Re: Choppa's problems
Do we just ignore how the tactic gives you 25% haste when in yellow as well?Reesh wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:49 pmAA haste is not an advantage that requires 75 mechanic points to truly open up (and works only on single target of course), vs 25% crit damage at any stance in a mechanic.Spoiler:
Crit tactic works for every ability - for AoE as well, you know that perfectly - mirroring ID and rampage whilst leaving 25% crit damage would create an op monster. Mirror them, but remove crit tactic permanently.
Also, ID + chop fasta by itself would create a 1 person ID spam machine, without requiring any additional teammate.
Abilities and tactics are spread and distributed for a reason.
Vs RNG crit chance on choppa who isn’t Mara who comes with crit amps or bo with Gork smash or allocate so much renown to crit chance like maras/WE can
that’s why choppa players will tell you that while as nice as SYG is it’s not as hot news as order players try to make it out to be and I don’t even know if the devs can remove racial tactics
It’s Easy to fear the wolf when theory crafting, why are slayers with ID, the crit chance tactic and SM with WW not destroying the world as op monsters already then?
That’s why the devs should try it and if CF is an issue then the devs can address it then or undo the mirroring
Whatever outcry there is it won’t be anywhere near as large as ASW,guardian wl or the current GTTC
Re: Choppa's problems
I think Choppas would do more damage if you gave them Rampage AND ID. For sure AoE, but ST probably too. Slayers get 50% AA while berserk, but Choppas can get 35% when they need it.
I don't mind Choppas getting Rampage just so people can see its not as good as others make it out to be, not that its bad. But if you give them ID too... That's so boring, they have to be the most mirrored class out there already.
Right now they have like 1 mastery tactic that's different? And they are both kind of in the same boat, seems good on paper but everyone who plays the class acts like its not as good as it seems.
So you want to mirror 2 of their different mastery abilities too. In which case they would have 3 mastery abilities that are different, but most of the time it would be a single mastery ability that's different. FUN!
I like ID on a slayer, but I would rather have them just swap the abilities than make them both the same. Better yet if GtdC is so terrible, make something new that's good that isn't exactly the same as ID.
I don't mind Choppas getting Rampage just so people can see its not as good as others make it out to be, not that its bad. But if you give them ID too... That's so boring, they have to be the most mirrored class out there already.
Right now they have like 1 mastery tactic that's different? And they are both kind of in the same boat, seems good on paper but everyone who plays the class acts like its not as good as it seems.
So you want to mirror 2 of their different mastery abilities too. In which case they would have 3 mastery abilities that are different, but most of the time it would be a single mastery ability that's different. FUN!
I like ID on a slayer, but I would rather have them just swap the abilities than make them both the same. Better yet if GtdC is so terrible, make something new that's good that isn't exactly the same as ID.
Re: Choppa's problems
Tbh i dont give a **** about rampage and ID, if i want to use these aility i would log my slayer instead of my choppa.
i would like to make the choppa shine with what it have, not with what it have to steal from slayer.
this is the idea
step 1:
swap Yer Getin Soft and Pent Up rage. the point is that Pent Up Rage is powerful but it require a too huge investement and thus isn't viable in DW build.
@Grunbag you can't move Pent Up Rage in 3rd tree! this would **** up 2H build. his place is in the first tree, where everyone can take it.
As it is now Yer Gettin Soft is useless because let you crit with useless ST ability, moving it in mid tree and increasing his duration by 1s will make it powerful (since the strongest ST choppa ability are in mid tree) but obtainable only by 2H choppa. so this will not make choppa OP in wb with endless +15% crit (at least one target will parry/block your aoe granting +15% crit forever, too powerful) but make 2H build more viable.
step 2:
2H choppa have less survivability compared to DW because all his 2H ability are short ranged (while aoe can reach 40ft), lose 10% parry and dont have pull (to close the distance) thus having Longer and Stronger in mid tree (with tick-time reducet to 2s or 3s and heal a bit buffed) will grant him more survivability.
Long lasta now is useless because with 2H you you are not AP starving and if you are good you will not hit enemy from front and thus Long Lasta will never proc. moving Long Lasta in AoE tree will make it more useful since hitting up to 9 target your proc chance are increased and when you use aoe you spend a lot of AP (wild choppin cost 55 AP).
Consequeces:
1) 2H build will have a usefull 100% crit tactic that cant be taken by aoe choppa. this will make 2H build more unique and strong (now is a bit lackluster)
2) Pent Up Rage will be attainable by all choppa since first tree is mendatory for every build(moving Pent Up Rage to 3rd tree will decrease significantly 2H choppa burst)
3) if aoe choppa can have both Pent Up Rage and Chop Fasta then he can use Wild Choppin' up to three time consecutively! This will increase choppa aoe damge by a lot! Slayer can't do this since they dont have Chopa Fasta. this change will close a little the gap between Slayer aoe damage and choppa aoe damage.
this 2 change will make 4 useless tactic became 4 usefull tactic and will close a little the damage gap between slayer and choppa. this 2 change are not enpugh, that's need to be said, but surely are a starting point.
Edit: the subsequent change can be to apply a damage component to Chop Fasta and try to make Keep On Choppin' useful. The last step will be to talk seriuosly about GTDC.
i would like to make the choppa shine with what it have, not with what it have to steal from slayer.
this is the idea
step 1:
swap Yer Getin Soft and Pent Up rage. the point is that Pent Up Rage is powerful but it require a too huge investement and thus isn't viable in DW build.
@Grunbag you can't move Pent Up Rage in 3rd tree! this would **** up 2H build. his place is in the first tree, where everyone can take it.
As it is now Yer Gettin Soft is useless because let you crit with useless ST ability, moving it in mid tree and increasing his duration by 1s will make it powerful (since the strongest ST choppa ability are in mid tree) but obtainable only by 2H choppa. so this will not make choppa OP in wb with endless +15% crit (at least one target will parry/block your aoe granting +15% crit forever, too powerful) but make 2H build more viable.
step 2:
2H choppa have less survivability compared to DW because all his 2H ability are short ranged (while aoe can reach 40ft), lose 10% parry and dont have pull (to close the distance) thus having Longer and Stronger in mid tree (with tick-time reducet to 2s or 3s and heal a bit buffed) will grant him more survivability.
Long lasta now is useless because with 2H you you are not AP starving and if you are good you will not hit enemy from front and thus Long Lasta will never proc. moving Long Lasta in AoE tree will make it more useful since hitting up to 9 target your proc chance are increased and when you use aoe you spend a lot of AP (wild choppin cost 55 AP).
Consequeces:
1) 2H build will have a usefull 100% crit tactic that cant be taken by aoe choppa. this will make 2H build more unique and strong (now is a bit lackluster)
2) Pent Up Rage will be attainable by all choppa since first tree is mendatory for every build(moving Pent Up Rage to 3rd tree will decrease significantly 2H choppa burst)
3) if aoe choppa can have both Pent Up Rage and Chop Fasta then he can use Wild Choppin' up to three time consecutively! This will increase choppa aoe damge by a lot! Slayer can't do this since they dont have Chopa Fasta. this change will close a little the gap between Slayer aoe damage and choppa aoe damage.
this 2 change will make 4 useless tactic became 4 usefull tactic and will close a little the damage gap between slayer and choppa. this 2 change are not enpugh, that's need to be said, but surely are a starting point.
Edit: the subsequent change can be to apply a damage component to Chop Fasta and try to make Keep On Choppin' useful. The last step will be to talk seriuosly about GTDC.
Zputadenti
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Re: Choppa's problems
Please dont mirror ID or move **** arround
Deal with the real issues
1. CF became fluff when BO was destroyed (lost snare, gained CD dec)
2. Keep on choppin is 100% **** and not worth speccing. It needs to be be ”similar” to rampage. That means it ideally bosts both AOE spec and ST spec
Deal with the real issues
1. CF became fluff when BO was destroyed (lost snare, gained CD dec)
2. Keep on choppin is 100% **** and not worth speccing. It needs to be be ”similar” to rampage. That means it ideally bosts both AOE spec and ST spec
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7
Re: Choppa's problems
This game is unique when it comes to class diversity.
If you want the exact same classes on both sides you have a lot of such games for example GW2 / TESO. Strength and uniqueness Warhammer is passionate about diversity.
Choppa is fine and dont need ANY boost.
U dont need any new tact or buy mastery tact becouse core are the best (same like slayer).
BF, DWLF, SYG, Flanking and optional ITB (slayer PFM).
Change build if u dont feel it.
Common and the best choppa build: left tree - HD/self heal channel, right tree GTDC offer so strong AOE (ofc if u need it) and perfect ST.
Yes GTDC its more pull skill then aoe dmg.
Yes Slayer rampage is the most op skill in the game and should be removed.
If you want the exact same classes on both sides you have a lot of such games for example GW2 / TESO. Strength and uniqueness Warhammer is passionate about diversity.
Choppa is fine and dont need ANY boost.
U dont need any new tact or buy mastery tact becouse core are the best (same like slayer).
BF, DWLF, SYG, Flanking and optional ITB (slayer PFM).
Change build if u dont feel it.
Common and the best choppa build: left tree - HD/self heal channel, right tree GTDC offer so strong AOE (ofc if u need it) and perfect ST.
Yes GTDC its more pull skill then aoe dmg.
Yes Slayer rampage is the most op skill in the game and should be removed.
Hurub Chopa 80+ / Wybrany Chosen 80+ / Mroczniak BG 60+ / Alubercik BO 50+ / Doczek DoK 80+ / Hurubek Zeal 80+ /
Misio Shaman 80+ / Maxra Mara 60+ / Alubertus RP 70+ / Alubert KTB 80+ / Mnich WP 60+ / Kregi SL 60+ / Uposledzonyjez IB 40+
Misio Shaman 80+ / Maxra Mara 60+ / Alubertus RP 70+ / Alubert KTB 80+ / Mnich WP 60+ / Kregi SL 60+ / Uposledzonyjez IB 40+
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