New WE player - can't kill healers?

[jokerspsycho]

the issue is most healers have an aoe 50% detaunt that has a 100% up time so that + guard they are taking 25% dmg. I've had success using disrupt elixir to ignore detaunt but a well geared healer is sometimes harder to kill than a tank it feels like.

Detaunt and guard don't stack.
Your disrupt buff makes you immune to caster CC but doesn't work against detaunt. You can always detaunt unless you are silenced/disarmed.

So only can kill a garbage truck player is what you are saying. Unless your a WL which is fine to kill target in the kd, balanced.

Since I have you here, how about we continue another conversation.

"Again what is your suggestion for helping WE/WH because it is a general consensus they do need help and War and other mods dont have issues coming in and saying "no this is working as intended and it will not be changed" which they havent so again, as i said before, it is the jobs of those who play the class to give ideas of which the devs can build off of. If they think WE/WH is completely fine they should come in here and say so and i can go back to my MSH which make all order players cry from what ive read on the forums."

[Sulorie]

the issue is most healers have an aoe 50% detaunt that has a 100% up time so that + guard they are taking 25% dmg. I've had success using disrupt elixir to ignore detaunt but a well geared healer is sometimes harder to kill than a tank it feels like.

Detaunt and guard don't stack.
Your disrupt buff makes you immune to caster CC but doesn't work against detaunt. You can always detaunt unless you are silenced/disarmed.

So only can kill a garbage truck player is what you are saying. Unless your a WL which is fine to kill target in the kd, balanced.

Since I have you here, how about we continue another conversation.

"Again what is your suggestion for helping WE/WH because it is a general consensus they do need help and War and other mods dont have issues coming in and saying "no this is working as intended and it will not be changed" which they havent so again, as i said before, it is the jobs of those who play the class to give ideas of which the devs can build off of. If they think WE/WH is completely fine they should come in here and say so and i can go back to my MSH which make all order players cry from what ive read on the forums."

I corrected your fundamentally wrong statements, albeit you make it sound here and in other threads like you know a lot about the class and you understand "only can kill a garbage truck player"? Are you kidding?

The live game over 10 years ago had a lot less viable classes or specs and I don't expect every class to be best or good for meta groups or warbands in every environment.
Your general consensus is some vocal part of the playerbase, where I doubt, that all of them know the class very well.
Would it be nice, if every class would be wanted for warbands and any other activity and all would be equally viable?
Hell yes but this is dreaming, because such a balancing doesn't exist.
Most classes being overbuffed were sub par specs or classes.
E.g. mara was once on live a debuff monster with mediocre damage.
The dmg got buffed after complaints by players, while they kept all debuffs and utility and became the best melee dd in the game.
Players picking WE/WH are usually not players, who prefer to play in warbands as the whole concept of both classes is more devoted to small scale. Is this a problem, when they would like to play with their guilds meta warband and don't get a slot, because of their class? Yes but it's not like some gear is gated behind premade warband activities.
This all doesn't stop WE from making good results either in city or elsewhere.

[jokerspsycho]

I corrected your fundamentally wrong statements, albeit you make it sound here and in other threads like you know a lot about the class and you understand "only can kill a garbage truck player"? Are you kidding?


Players picking WE/WH are usually not players, who prefer to play in warbands as the whole concept of both classes is more devoted to small scale. Is this a problem, when they would like to play with their guilds meta warband and don't get a slot, because of their class? Yes but it's not like some gear is gated behind premade warband activities.
This all doesn't stop WE from making good results either in city or elsewhere.
[/quote]

I like these statements from you. Yes if I kill a healer solo it is because he is either A not that good and cant detaunt and heal through my 50% damage from now until he is bored, or B undergeared, because most folks, you included, have said u shouldn't be able to 1v1 a healer.

Now we get back to something I've addressed a few times towards, you and others, which has yet to be answered. U said people that pick we/wh want small scale. This is true. Why would you ever bring a wh over slayer, wl, or asw? WE over dps dok, msh, mara, choppa? For 6v6?

Edit: avoidance lvl is pretty good man

Again I've said I'm fine not being near meta for WB play. But when people, like you, say it is a small scale class and pretty much every other mdps does what I do but better, what's the point? So I will ask again, very plainly and openly,

>>>>Do you think WE/WH are fine as is? If so why bring them over any other mdps in the game when it comes to 6v6, what can we/wh do better than any other mdps? <<<<

Csnt make it simpler than that

[Martok]

So only can kill a garbage truck player is what you are saying. Unless your a WL which is fine to kill target in the kd, balanced.

Careful. Mention balance and people start crying.

[jokerspsycho]

So only can kill a garbage truck player is what you are saying. Unless your a WL which is fine to kill target in the kd, balanced.

Careful. Mention balance and people start crying.

I dont even care about balance at this point I just want consistant bc ppl like this dude say we/wh is small scale class but then ask for help with your small scale class and u get, "lol this game isnt about 1v1 and small scale, its about orvr"

[Sulorie]

Now we get back to something I've addressed a few times towards, you and others, which has yet to be answered. U said people that pick we/wh want small scale. This is true. Why would you ever bring a wh over slayer, wl, or asw? WE over dps dok, msh, mara, choppa? For 6v6?

Edit: avoidance lvl is pretty good man

Again I've said I'm fine not being near meta for WB play. But when people, like you, say it is a small scale class and pretty much every other mdps does what I do but better, what's the point? So I will ask again, very plainly and openly,

>>>>Do you think WE/WH are fine as is? If so why bring them over any other mdps in the game when it comes to 6v6, what can we/wh do better than any other mdps? <<<<

Csnt make it simpler than that

How can I tell you, that 6vs6 is an entire different thing than usual scenarios or rvr roam 6man play?
There is more than 6vs6 and meta warbands in this game.
Do you find a lot rdps in 6vs6?
No, this doesn't mean that rdps are useless in general.


The good WE I see do totally fine and a lot more fail horribly but this can be said about any class. When you feel too weak on your class, then it's you, not the class.

[Martok]

I dont even care about balance at this point I just want consistant bc ppl like this dude say we/wh is small scale class but then ask for help with your small scale class and u get, "lol this game isnt about 1v1 and small scale, its about orvr"

As I have stated many times prior both here on the forums and in my videos, the essence of this game is one v. one and small scale battles. Everything else is just window dressing,

[jokerspsycho]

How can I tell you, that 6vs6 is an entire different thing than usual scenarios or rvr roam 6man play?
There is more than 6vs6 and meta warbands in this game.
Do you find a lot rdps in 6vs6?
No, this doesn't mean that rdps are useless in general.


The good WE I see do totally fine and a lot more fail horribly but this can be said about any class. When you feel too weak on your class, then it's you, not the class.

>>>>"If so why bring them over any other mdps in the game when it comes to 6v6, what can we/wh do better than any other mdps?"<<<<

We try again, let's even open that from 6v6 to SC premade, why bring a we/wh over a choppa, dok, mara, or msh for your melee slot?

Your correct ranged dont do well in 6v6, it is a melee meta and we/wh are 5th in what melee class to bring.

And when we speak of ranged, we speak of sorc/bw and magus/engi. there has been countless discussions about making RSW and RSH viable which I also agree with but that's another can of worms. Those classes have more of a place in warband than a we/wh. So now we have identified that we/wh has no placement in either small scale or warband. So can we do something to make them good for at least small scale?

[Sulorie]

>>>>"If so why bring them over any other mdps in the game when it comes to 6v6, what can we/wh do better than any other mdps?"<<<<

We try again, let's even open that from 6v6 to SC premade, why bring a we/wh over a choppa, dok, mara, or msh for your melee slot?

Apparently it's not true for your WE, or we wouldn't have this discussion but they deal more ST dmg than most of the other mDD you mentioned and add among other things an outgoing hd and stagger. BG/IB can give the same healdebuff but not in every spec and it lets you build the group with different tanks. Not going to play the game with you to talk the class bad in order to get cheap unnecessary buffs like posted in this and other threads.

Something I would change? The disrupt buff not working on already applied dots or debuffs, which makes a 60s cd skill useless in many situations, because the dmg is already on you.

[jokerspsycho]

>>>>"If so why bring them over any other mdps in the game when it comes to 6v6, what can we/wh do better than any other mdps?"<<<<

We try again, let's even open that from 6v6 to SC premade, why bring a we/wh over a choppa, dok, mara, or msh for your melee slot?

Apparently it's not true for your WE, or we wouldn't have this discussion but they deal more ST dmg than most of the other mDD you mentioned and add among other things an outgoing hd and stagger. BG/IB can give the same healdebuff but not in every spec and it lets you build the group with different tanks. Not going to play the game with you to talk the class bad in order to get cheap unnecessary buffs like posted in this and other threads.

Something I would change? The disrupt buff not working on already applied dots or debuffs, which makes a 60s cd skill useless in many situations, because the dmg is already on you.

Didnt realize that WH/wl, wh/slayer, wh/asw was meta.

Who would u bring a WE over for destro I'm curious?

So you think that WE/WH, a class that isnt for warband, but for small scale (as u stated earlier), which isnt also near meta for small scale. Is 100% fine aside from that one change?