Whats going on with Destro?

[hammerhead]

Spoiler:

The whole "destro got nerfed and order got buffed/not nerfed" I would to some extend buy into that arguement.

Back when I grinded my sov sets and played RoR actively, you had certain tools on your own realm that you built your comp, strategies and setup around.
Same for playing experienced, you had certain tools and abilities on enemy realm you would focus on not allowing the enemy to perform

Example: Zealots selfpumping to reach a Windblock M4 was a really strong pugstomping morale dump, the experienced players knew how to find the zealots and track when they would expectedly drop such an "advantageous" tool and swing the fight in their favor. You tried to play around it, focus the zealots to keep resetting their moral bar and never allowing the swing to come in.
Basicly having this Zealot tool in the fights shaped the fights, alot of other key destro abilities like this were "touches" or changed over last half year where as the strong "play around them" tools on order were basicly not really touches, part of it comes down to Order just get raw extra damage procs and +healing tactics they can overlap and stack.

So I can honestly see, if I was in PnP & co's. shoes how the little tweaks to Destro's strongsuit abilities were slightly nerfed/adjusted or corrected, and how eventually you have been sitting for years looking at Orders supperior heal and damage advantage being untouched, while having their supperior morale-play (nerfed for both realms with target cap and cap of MDMG per sec)
Displacement from Zealot WoI (yet an other tool where it shaped the fight)
Choppa pull adjustments, while rampage still being untouched.
Yet an other RDPS class being made viable on Order when they already had supperior dps (thourgh restricted to fewer classes)
and a few other things like mara revert and no rsh revamp.

Looking through those glasses, I can see and understand how some of the Backbone of Destro, leaders got tired of the serverdirection and took a break.
Dont get me wrong, from Order point of view some of these abilities NEEDED counterplay and they were too potent. But I am trying to portray how I can also see from my enemiest view that this was just one slap in the face after the other.

Below ill link some of the LBL footage where we found out, on the day, how we should play aroun the zealots, you can hear and see how dangerous the Windblocks were, but also how keeping track of it helped you fight against it. For context we had 3-4 really close 24v24ish orvr fights with the pnp event warband, started out really rusty and with just a "zergbombing" mindset but improved and figured out the focus fireing better on the fly, and picking priority targets. My shotcalling is pure potatoe and i never wanted to actually do it, so bare with the mumble stuttering in high pressure situations.
https://youtu.be/g-Hi7PoT74o?t=944
(I dont think pnp were pussies, that was a heat of the moment coment and i have the biggest respect for them and their guild <3 )

With all due respect to your opinion, but you slightly forgot what the devteam did to ensure that the Destro melee line was where it is now. Good things are forgotten quickly. All three Desi tanks received a tonn of changes, up to mirroring, while the Order was nerfed or was forgotten not only within a month, but if my memory serves me for a whole year. And the situation in May was just the same as today, when there was no one to take the lead for the same reasons for which Destruction is now. And frightened by the situation when the Desi did not have enough space to get on the CS in May, they are simply drop out their forts now, camping an auction house and looking with one eye at the company. That's the whole secret of statistics. With equal numbers between the factions, a little more "destropride", then the statistics were the same for all 9/10 losses for the attackers. And we would go to the CS as on a feast and not turn pvp into a farmhamer online.

[Rekoom]

BO and BG utility were improved vs. live for sure but if you go there then you would have to look at what happened to the WL (huge buff), Mara (nerf), SW (huge buff), WE (nerf) etc.

Let's focus on the current situation.

[sjemen]

ah the good old "THE REALM I PLAY FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS A DAY IN MY TIMEZONE LOST A ZONE/FORT/CITY/SOME SCs SO IT'S INHERENTLY BAD IN GENERAL AND LOSES ALL THE TIME" thread!

[Twick]

ah the good old "THE REALM I PLAY FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS A DAY IN MY TIMEZONE LOST A ZONE/FORT/CITY/SOME SCs SO IT'S INHERENTLY BAD IN GENERAL AND LOSES ALL THE TIME" thread!

[zij83]

Tbh I wouldn't argue on recent Destro "nerfs" at all because, as Wargrimnir pointed out, it is a very weak argument.

I would however look into the differences that have been there forever (including on live) and that do impact the outcome when properly used/abused combined with the improvements of previously underperforming careers.

Imo, feel free to correct me:

- more healing available to Order in general from WP/KotBS combo this is non negligeable and the largest factor in fort AFTER lack of Destro organized play
- undefendable high sustained damage from Slayer to melt tank lines on pushes (and in cities)
- superior aoe spec/damage on BW
- superior damage on Engie and better debuff synergy (armor & corp) - latest pet changes made turrets hit like TRUCKS btw
- superior aoe spread dot on SW, BHA is a monster criting for 1k+ on squishies, that's a lot of extra pressure Destro doesn't have access to at all
- a much better support tank in the KotBS

In comparison Destro as a faction looks better in the tank morale self pump game (which doesn't matter in fort as you want to wait for BG M4 anyway) and... Isn't that it?

Choppas may be marginally more survivable because they have +160 wounds but then again Slayers have +660 armor. Marauders have better utility than WL (if they spec and gear for it, at the expense of damage) but probably less aoe damage now and, while mSH are probably more meta than aSW are, aSW in a single target melee train is scary and rSW does insane spread aoe damage (which is not fluff, everything adds up to pressure healers).

Nevertheless it's hard to argue against the fact that, indeed, our leadership has vanished (because Order is the superior faction? I don't know, probably not) and we don't have anyone stepping in atm. It is particularly egregious in non-primetime as you do have some very strong WB leaders on Order (Beasts, Rolgrom, Xuber) in those hours while Destro is not fielding the organized/geared numbers to give a proper answer.

I was fighting in a 6man with my guild last night in Praag and we were just trying to find some even fights in the lakes while dodging 2 full organized WB. In the end we basically did 6v solo or 6v2 and got rolled/dodged everything else.... Engaging gameplay! We ended up logging off.

I am sure there are other guilds only able to do that atm and, while we should band up and field full 24 mans to have a decent chance, players most likely want to chill with friends and take it easy which is the point of a game after all but not conducive to winning in oRvR in those conditions.

TL;DR: Destro needs to get organized, yes. No Destro doesn't particularly need to l2p (although it does help to have tanks that guard and healers that heal), there are newbies on both factions. And yes I would argue Order is slightly stronger in the healing and aoe department, especially if they just have to hold a funnel and don't have to rely on tanks to protect their squishies.

I sort of disagree, order isn't this OP boogeyman that destro makes it out to be. You're right in Destro needing to be organized.


What I've seen lately is that it seems like all the new players in this recent wave on destro wanna be the hero and rolled solo/roaming builds to get some sort of power trip. But this isn't a solo show and yall need to stop with the DPS healers, the DPS tanks (yes a BO with a 2h looks **** awesome but the greater good is calling!) and DPS ranged SH's trying to nut hug their shammies and all the fugging WE's.


You're right though. Just work together, you guys have the numbers for sure. Every PQ boss lately in CW is dominated by Destro and yall have the advantage in open floor combat, order cant do that well without something to hide behind lol.


You guys got this, I have no doubt that in a couple of months we will be hearing all of this again.... but from Order side.

Destro doesn't have a problem in open spaces which is why we do so well on the world boss. Enclosed spaces (forts) are biggest problem due to the advantage order gets in aoe, and stunties running around with undependable attacks. I have a full sov geared BO (yes SnB) and with heals on me I have been flattend in under 2-3 secs by a slayerball. I will never understand why making attacks undefendable is a thing, it's a cheap trick that rewards dumb play. Before anyone says it yes I'm spamming shatter enchantment as hard as I can, it doesn't matter.

[Nekkma]

Order always was a funnel faction. Standing someplace safe and spamming aoe comes as natural to order players as destro's orcish behaviour to pointlessly smash their heads into said funnel.

On live, the funnel in north keep in KV could last an entire evening. For some reason destro rarely bothered with funnels. You can still see the difference of gankers between the factions. Destro can have 2-3 wbs of gankers and basically just leave a keep to fall while order typically defend the keep (at least in my experience).

[Schweedy]

Destro doesn't have a problem in open spaces which is why we do so well on the world boss. Enclosed spaces (forts) are biggest problem due to the advantage order gets in aoe, and stunties running around with undependable attacks. I have a full sov geared BO (yes SnB) and with heals on me I have been flattend in under 2-3 secs by a slayerball. I will never understand why making attacks undefendable is a thing, it's a cheap trick that rewards dumb play. Before anyone says it yes I'm spamming shatter enchantment as hard as I can, it doesn't matter.

'

The laughable part is that they bring nonsense like Zealot M4 "Windblock" as the end all be all OP ability around which Order had to adapt around, but also justifies all the other nifty tools in the order box.
30ft and 10 seconds of use on enemies with normally 8K health and above being bolstered by Focused Mending (15%), Exalted Defenses (%20), Blessings of Grungni (25%), Magical Infusion (25%). Total of 85% healing efficiency on any single target. If you are a Swordmaster add up Isha's Protection (20%) so more like 105% healing efficiency, without much work really, just smart healing.

How ANY Order Warband loses versus another Destro Warband is beyond me. Lack of coordination and class knowledge.

Side Note: Swordmaster's Bolstering Enchatments and Blessings of Heaving (got to hit target to heal here) are all affected by the above calculations and can be spread with AoE to all enemies in the vicinity. Guaranteeing 100% uptime for the group as a Support Swordmaster.

[Twick]

Destro doesn't have a problem in open spaces which is why we do so well on the world boss. Enclosed spaces (forts) are biggest problem due to the advantage order gets in aoe, and stunties running around with undependable attacks. I have a full sov geared BO (yes SnB) and with heals on me I have been flattend in under 2-3 secs by a slayerball. I will never understand why making attacks undefendable is a thing, it's a cheap trick that rewards dumb play. Before anyone says it yes I'm spamming shatter enchantment as hard as I can, it doesn't matter.

'

The laughable part is that they bring nonsense like Zealot M4 "Windblock" as the end all be all OP ability around which Order had to adapt around, but also justifies all the other nifty tools in the order box.
30ft and 10 seconds of use on enemies with normally 8K health and above being bolstered by Focused Mending (15%), Exalted Defenses (%20), Blessings of Grungni (25%), Magical Infusion (25%). Total of 85% healing efficiency on any single target. If you are a Swordmaster add up Isha's Protection (20%) so more like 105% healing efficiency, without much work really, just smart healing.

How ANY Order Warband loses versus another Destro Warband is beyond me. Lack of coordination and class knowledge.

Side Note: Swordmaster's Bolstering Enchatments and Blessings of Heaving (got to hit target to heal here) are all affected by the above calculations and can be spread with AoE to all enemies in the vicinity. Guaranteeing 100% uptime for the group as a Support Swordmaster.

You do realize not all of those stack right? lol. Pretty sure only things that stack are abilities, tactics and then morales. And I say "pretty sure" because even then there are exceptions like how "eye shot" initiative debuff from an ability doesn't stack with the "wrist slash" initiative debuff from a tactic that SW's have.

Focused Mending is 15% increased incoming heals from a tactic, so if a SM is running Isha's Protection that takes priorityj, like wise if a RP is running Blessing of Grungni that takes priority, These DO NOT STACK.

yeah these don't stack bud


Pretty funny how you did not even know this. Thought your post was a meme at first.

How ANY destro doesn't know this and still claims to know the game is BEYOND ME <- see how silly you sound?

Again Order isn't the OP boogeyman you make them out to be

[marafado]

in my opinion: order side is receiving more love from devs, and the xrealm guilds that "assure the ror balance" are following the devs signs.

[Twick]

in my opinion: order side is receiving more love from devs, and the xrealm guilds that assure the ror balance are following the devs signs.

In my opionon: why don't you ask the guilds yourselves? they are on these forums


pretty sure they just got tired of winning and had all they gear they wanted on their current destro toons, becasue before that they were order and got tired because they had all the gear on their order toons.


ebbs and flows dudes, jeeze we are gonna be hearing this same thing in 3 months from order side when all you wannbe destro solo artists finally stop running solo/roaming builds and get with the band