Sorc/BW Time for Escape

[MedV]

Many patches ago, the BW and Sorc were classes who's damage truly terrified both pugs and premades alike. Those days are long behind. Damage of almost every other dps class has creeped up and is now comparable to the Sorc/BW.

The problem is not only do these classes literally damage themselves to keep up dps with everyone else but they have 0 escape.

With the new Ranked Scs and premade groups being the focus, I think it is time to relook at these classes and to remove the self damage and also give them some type of escape.

Any Ideas?

[Fey]

You'll never convince anyone to get rid of half of the core class mechanic.

You have magebolt, hold onto it and use defensively to knock away mdps.

You have root.

You have scintillating energy if you can get to m3.

BW has stop drop n' roll, almost on demand KD.

Sorc has Triumphant Blasting, use with Surging Pain while running. No one uses this but it's there.

You have flee + ap pot like everyone else.

You can spec quick escape.

Kite.

[wonshot]

While I do agree with Fey's list of tools, I think it also underlines a minor issue. That the biggest self-peel tools for Singletarget Sorc/BW is that its morale tools.
Focus mind being the biggest naturally, as you break soft and hard CC at once. But on a 60sec cooldown plus you need to actually reach M2 from you get in combat.

If we compare these two casters with the rest of the RDPS category the other classes get some CC or selfpeel on their mastery or baseline abilities.
Where as BW Sorc get an aoe root which is honestly, instantly breaks duration and after that free aoe immunities in a setting here Punting is key, so you dont want to give these out for free(!)

Aoe root baseline is given to this archtype at carerr lvl 10 for class defining abilities, same time as Ressurect, Charge, Stealth, Guard for the other archtypes.
But out of this list I think its safe to say that this aoe root ability is the worst of the bunch. What could make the aoe root better, would be a short duration of time after rooting a player, they cant use their CCbreaker. Just simply to give the caster a breif moment to break a few feets distance. Something along the lines of 0.5sec unbreakable root and then Jugganaughts work.

Now that the ranked ruleset allows for 2mdps to matchup against a RDPS, it would probably be time to look at how all of the RDPS classes fare in 6v6soloQ. but I guess that was the point of the Realm champeons right, apart from ranged dps is still not picked in 6v6 group ranked and is struggling (generally speaking) in soloQ.

Sorc and BW have already been targeted with an attempt to shut them down with the addition of Trivalblows, "luckily" FS is still supperior so these two classes are not dead yet but if renown trainers are added to ranked before the match begins, or if Clensing winds is added later on. Then I guess these classes need some focus in giving them a place in the game, again.
But for a class mirror that is long pass its prime days, is it enough to have it just being a pugstomping moster, or should something be done to make the careers overall more welcoming in endgame countent such as 24v24 Guild vs guild, 6v6 group, SoloQ ranked, and to some extend Cities.

The difference is just too big in when these careers can be effective or not. Either you unload your full timestamp and invest upto 7secons to take 20-30% of a guarded/supported mdps' healthbar, or you onecombo them if they are unaware, ungaurded, unsupported. A more consistant middleground would be welcome imo

[Bozzax]

You'll never convince anyone to get rid of half of the core class mechanic.

You have magebolt, hold onto it and use defensively to knock away mdps.

You have root.

You have scintillating energy if you can get to m3.

BW has stop drop n' roll, almost on demand KD.

Sorc has Triumphant Blasting, use with Surging Pain while running. No one uses this but it's there.

You have flee + ap pot like everyone else.

You can spec quick escape.

Kite.

Magebolt?
Kite? Triumphant Blasting m3
You can spec QE

[Tesq]

Many patches ago, the BW and Sorc were classes who's damage truly terrified both pugs and premades alike. Those days are long behind. Damage of almost every other dps class has creeped up and is now comparable to the Sorc/BW.

The problem is not only do these classes literally damage themselves to keep up dps with everyone else but they have 0 escape.

With the new Ranked Scs and premade groups being the focus, I think it is time to relook at these classes and to remove the self damage and also give them some type of escape.

Any Ideas?

if you mean with something in mind for small scale / ranked

-Definetly sorc would need a small range port added to "shroud of darkness" (which is alredy 1 min CD and useless with chosen aura) and qol change to res part into dodge/disrupt

-Bw alredy have something vs melee it could use some qol change on "shield of aqshy" armor part maybe changed into pshysical dmg reduction or made armor componet stack (dont really remember now if it does or not but should not cuz the only 2 exeption of armor stack are bg "FoF" and engi/magus core buff).

N.B: so sorc move away from dmg and set back while bw withstand dmg and set back; dont really know if this would help with specific issues vs other realm mDD but it's how these classes def buff had been designed, i would just fix these 2 skill instead rework and see how they do.

N.B.B keep in mind both class in small scale can M2 immune to snare every 1 min, so the def tools given for small scale should be minor things.

[MedV]

You'll never convince anyone to get rid of half of the core class mechanic.

You have magebolt, hold onto it and use defensively to knock away mdps.

You have root.

You have scintillating energy if you can get to m3.

BW has stop drop n' roll, almost on demand KD.

Sorc has Triumphant Blasting, use with Surging Pain while running. No one uses this but it's there.

You have flee + ap pot like everyone else.

You can spec quick escape.

Kite.

Magebolt?
Kite? Triumphant Blasting m3
You can spec QE

I think he was being sarcastic.

Just lower the dmg they do to themselves from 750 per hit to 250 per hit.
Give the Sorc either a short distance self knockback with snare like SW/SH have.

[Caduceus]

Sorc/BW needs something, that much is clear.

Lack of escape tools is one thing, but there is also the complete lack of dps when under any kind of pressure, being very easy to counter by good players who see your heavily telegraphed burst, and basically being a giant liability when specced fully for damage despite needing that damage to be relevant in the first place.

[zarlemagne]

Artic Blast really needs to be made instant, or at least able to be cast of the move.
Atm it's a 2 sec cast that requires the sorc to be stood still and only applies it's snare if the victim is cursed

BW's get a 3sec instant stun and a snare on Withering Heat, so reducing the cast time on Arctic Blast (but leaving the curse requirement) should be fine

[Atropik]

You'll never convince anyone to get rid of half of the core class mechanic.

You have magebolt, hold onto it and use defensively to knock away mdps.

You have root.

You have scintillating energy if you can get to m3.

BW has stop drop n' roll, almost on demand KD.

Sorc has Triumphant Blasting, use with Surging Pain while running. No one uses this but it's there.

You have flee + ap pot like everyone else.

You can spec quick escape.

Kite.

One single snare or ranged cc from any source, and your spectacular kitting with all the nice tools youve mentioned will be basicly done. There will be only one thing that can probably save you, it is called m2 - focused mind.

[Fey]

Triumphant Blasting should have given up the game.

I tried playing TBC, but posting nonsense here is more fun.