[Ironbreaker] Blood of Grimnir - are you using it? How are you finding it?

[hogun]

Fact, the IB has the best survivability of any tank in RoR. You have tactic's which you get more Grudges, Even if you give up some of your survivability tactic's for better Grudges. You still have better survivability then the BG.

As soon as a BG starts to spend it's hate on abilities, it starts to lose it's survivability. The IB does not have that, the IB does not lose block and parry if it spends it's Grudges.

If you want your Grudges to build the same way as the BG, then the IB would have to take a nerf to it's survivability to bring it inline with the BG or the BG would have to have a very big buff to it's survivability to bring it inline with the IB. you can't have it both ways.

Dwarven Riposte which is a great tactic, you will be stacking Parry if you 2h IB and you also be stacking parry and block if you are S&B,

pity, I understand why you might think that, when you don't know the game well you get ideas about the opposing characters.
I have all the tanks at least lvl 40 and some have a good RR. I assure you the BG has a better survivability than the IB, and for your information the tank that has the best survivability is the CHosen. then the Kotbs, then the Bo, then the SM then the Bg and finally the IB. I could explain this to you if you speak FR. otherwise too complicated for me.

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[Farrul]

I will be absolutely honest with you answering your first question - no, not really, i stopped mid/late feb and even before that havent been very active on IB. Thank you for mentioning this point that i clearly missed out to mention here in my speech, i do support this adjustment has to be gone (or be tweaked to be treated like procs with 0,25) for both BG&IB, of that im absolutely sure.

However tho, i cant grasp disaster collapse you are describing in this regards. Dwarven Riposte still nets you +30 per 3 seconds (and tops you in no time thru guard dmg), you still have gains from oathfriend and from being hit but now everything per GCD. All in all it does overally reduce grudge gains but i cant see world collapse because of that. Not to a point to run both rising anger and dwarven riposte.

Yeah it feels pretty clunky with grudge GCD, but not a nightmare you point out. I admit that i havent done any competetive action back then where it has more value and could be felt deeper. However my limited mostly pugging experience didnt make me feel this change is gamebreaking, ive noticed it being inconvenient.
And actually, a question, what gear you run usually, how much parry do you generally have that you claim dwarven riposte is not nets you enough resources in e.g. regular SCs? And how often do you run parry buff?

Imagine if a slayer/choppa had to dedicate 2 tactics to make enrage tick upwards, or a sorc/bw had to dedicate 2 tactics for crit mechanic. WH/WE had to use 2 tactics to gain points.

Meanwhile the mirror class BG can use its class mechanic without having to dedicate a single tactic to hatred.

Does this sound fair?

Not saying BG shouldn't have this fixed as well, i got a BG in mid tier scenarios and the nerf is definitely felt there as well although to a much lesser extent.

2) In certain situations Riposte will do the trick in orders it won't. I can't make it work without Rising Anger ( and i do regard myself as an experienced IB). Of course i'm talking about being efficient which involves things like punt( 25 grudge) and spending my grudge as cooldowns allows.

The fact we can only gain grudge once per GCD compared to previously Per hit makes gameplay feel horrible tbh in so many different situations. I do not feel like touching my IB again and i do consider him one of my prefered classes ( previous to ability rework that is).

P.S. Nerfing abilities or numbers is one thing ( which sucks like HB ) but can be dealt with, one has to adapt etc but nerfing fundamental functionality of the class is on a different level. Did they even bother to mention it in the Patch notes? One could almost assume it is a bug and i've seen plenty of IB's confused about it on this forum as online in the game.

Slayer/choppa literally has to slot both str and str+ws tactic or it has no damage . Many careers have this kind of tactic tax going on for them

Are you seriously comparing raw stats tactics that gives secondary bonuses and improves the damage of EVERYTHING ( abilities + auto attack) to IB tactics with the sole purpose of enabling the carrer resource?

Nop you can't compare them at all. What the IB must sacrifice would be equal to Slayer/Choppa spending 2 tactics slots on enabling Rage Ticking upwards, with no stats increasing ability damage or auto attacks nor secondary benefits such as strikethrough/parry.


There is simply no balance justification for what the ability rework has done to NERF the Ironbreaker. The only remedy is to remove the Global Cooldown from grudge gained per hit, agreeing to anything less is a Stockholm syndrome.

[Farrul]

Fact, the IB has the best survivability of any tank in RoR. You have tactic's which you get more Grudges, Even if you give up some of your survivability tactic's for better Grudges. You still have better survivability then the BG.

As soon as a BG starts to spend it's hate on abilities, it starts to lose it's survivability. The IB does not have that, the IB does not lose block and parry if it spends it's Grudges.

If you want your Grudges to build the same way as the BG, then the IB would have to take a nerf to it's survivability to bring it inline with the BG or the BG would have to have a very big buff to it's survivability to bring it inline with the IB. you can't have it both ways.

Dwarven Riposte which is a great tactic, you will be stacking Parry if you 2h IB and you also be stacking parry and block if you are S&B,

Lol.

2H IB is a paper - made tank, it has no survivability compared to a 2H BG.

BG : Easily softcap Toughness, 85% parry, may spec for 50% + disrupt and 25% Magic mitigation. It is the by far tankiest 2H Tank in the game for RvR.

IB: 600 Toughness, 75% parry, can't do anything vs magic. IB has no place outside of small scale fights ( solo roam, scenario, 6 men fights)

Simple math, 2H IB melts from focused fire in RvR and BG can withstand it, take it and get healed through it ( IB dies).

Where is your fact again?

Are you referring solely to snb? Resource tactics that we are discussing here is less relevant in a SnB comparison since SnB BG won't have high amount of crit to trivialize their Hatred gains through enraged beating ( unlike 2H BG) and the Cooldown nerf to hatred/grudge is more severe to BG here.

P.S. We are not asking for Grudges to be on par with Hatred, i don't think any IB has ever asked this afaik. Please read what we are actually saying before jumping into a discussion stating false claims.

[Pinkywinky]

Fact, the IB has the best survivability of any tank in RoR. You have tactic's which you get more Grudges, Even if you give up some of your survivability tactic's for better Grudges. You still have better survivability then the BG.

As soon as a BG starts to spend it's hate on abilities, it starts to lose it's survivability. The IB does not have that, the IB does not lose block and parry if it spends it's Grudges.

If you want your Grudges to build the same way as the BG, then the IB would have to take a nerf to it's survivability to bring it inline with the BG or the BG would have to have a very big buff to it's survivability to bring it inline with the IB. you can't have it both ways.

Dwarven Riposte which is a great tactic, you will be stacking Parry if you 2h IB and you also be stacking parry and block if you are S&B,

Lol.

2H IB is a paper - made tank, it has no survivability compared to a 2H BG.

BG : Easily softcap Toughness, 85% parry, may spec for 50% + disrupt and 25% Magic mitigation. It is the by far tankiest 2H Tank in the game for RvR.

IB: 600 Toughness, 75% parry, can't do anything vs magic. IB has no place outside of small scale fights ( solo roam, scenario, 6 men fights)

Simple math, 2H IB melts from focused fire in RvR and BG can withstand it, take it and get healed through it ( IB dies).

Where is your fact again?

Are you referring solely to snb? Resource tactics that we are discussing here is less relevant in a SnB comparison since SnB BG won't have high amount of crit to trivialize their Hatred gains through enraged beating ( unlike 2H BG) and the Cooldown nerf to hatred/grudge is more severe to BG here.

P.S. We are not asking for Grudges to be on par with Hatred, i don't think any IB has ever asked this afaik. Please read what we are actually saying before jumping into a discussion stating false claims.

Your Post has just shown your lack of understanding of your class.
1st of the IB and BG are not a mirror. I have both the IB RR 88 and BG RR 86, both have the plus and negatives.

This game is not based on solo game play, Your IB is not just based around being a 2h build, the game is based around WB.
Let me give you some facts.

If you are playing as 2h Tank in a WB, then you are a drain on the WB resources, the healers have to work harder to keep you up. If all you do is play in WB's then you should be a S&B Tank. if you running solo, 6 man or doing SC's then play as a 2H.

Block, parry and survivability is king if you are in WB's and then the IB has the best survivability of all tanks.

Order tanks have better survivability
Desto Tanks have better DPS
Was like that on live and is still the same in RoR

I would love to see IB and BG tanks have the same survivability and DPS, for one, it would stop topic's like this one. but mainly it would bring Balance to them both

You talking about the BG toughness, please show me how the BG can get to the same levels of Armor that the IB can get to? The facts are the the IB has better armor and the BG has better toughness,

What you gain as an IB, the BG does not get, and that is the same for the BG. Stop trying to compare the two, and look at all the tools you have which the BG does not have.

[Farrul]

Your Post has just shown your lack of understanding of your class.
1st of the IB and BG are not a mirror. I have both the IB RR 88 and BG RR 86, both have the plus and negatives.

This game is not based on solo game play, Your IB is not just based around being a 2h build, the game is based around WB.
Let me give you some facts.

If you are playing as 2h Tank in a WB, then you are a drain on the WB resources, the healers have to work harder to keep you up. If all you do is play in WB's then you should be a S&B Tank. if you running solo, 6 man or doing SC's then play as a 2H.

Block, parry and survivability is king if you are in WB's and then the IB has the best survivability of all tanks.

Order tanks have better survivability
Desto Tanks have better DPS
Was like that on live and is still the same in RoR

I would love to see IB and BG tanks have the same survivability and DPS, for one, it would stop topic's like this one. but mainly it would bring Balance to them both

You talking about the BG toughness, please show me how the BG can get to the same levels of Armor that the IB can get to? The facts are the the IB has better armor and the BG has better toughness,

What you gain as an IB, the BG does not get, and that is the same for the BG. Stop trying to compare the two, and look at all the tools you have which the BG does not have.

Oh dear what's up with all the platitudes & strawmans?

Or you really don't understand what we are discussing and thus invent your own points and argue against them? Go and read the history of the thread i don't want to repeat myself.

However i must laugh at this statement, sorry

''The facts are the the IB has better armor and the BG has better toughness, '' .

Yes it is a fact, and it means very little. You would of course know this if you played both classes at high level and evaluated them objectively.

[CSKL]

I don't play with my IB anymore.

Was the best brain-skilled class.
Several instant choices for each situation with perma skill capacity and never out of action point.

Is now slow gameplay. 2H glass-canon. Hopefully ennemies still think I'm tank and never focus me 1rst.

[hogun]

Your Post has just shown your lack of understanding of your class.
1st of the IB and BG are not a mirror. I have both the IB RR 88 and BG RR 86, both have the plus and negatives.

friend,

i'm sorry, i don't think we can make you understand anything more unfortunately because arriving at this level of RR and thinking what you think about the difference between BG and IB is impossible.
I just think you need to reread the competencies of each class to understand them better and you'll see that your point of view is wrong.

[Hazmy]

Hi everyone, a reminder to stay civil and on-topic in the future, this has nothing to do with Blood of Grimnir anymore and there are some unnecessary and rude remarks.

I'm locking this thread as it has devolved into non-productive argument.