[Review] [SW] Scout Tactics

[Acidic]

b4 engie/magus buff Scout had the longest range.
siege was comfort zone for Scout. long range stationery dps made enemy rdps run off. it was huge advantage in siege.

after engie/magus buff Scout lost title of stationery rdps.
Guerrilla Training had usage in stationery rotation. none stop spam. now Scout can't stand still long enough thus GT has little use.
.

Probably a good thing. SW are not meant to be best at everything.
Just sounds like every SW change thread tries to bring each stance to the level of best of bread in that area.
Want top range to compete with best range class
Want best mele abilities ...
Just goes on and on. I think that SW should understand that just because a class can mele, range, AOE , burst etc one class should not be best at these.

[lefze]

b4 engie/magus buff Scout had the longest range.
siege was comfort zone for Scout. long range stationery dps made enemy rdps run off. it was huge advantage in siege.

after engie/magus buff Scout lost title of stationery rdps.
Guerrilla Training had usage in stationery rotation. none stop spam. now Scout can't stand still long enough thus GT has little use.
.

Probably a good thing. SW are not meant to be best at everything.
Just sounds like every SW change thread tries to bring each stance to the level of best of bread in that area.
Want top range to compete with best range class
Want best mele abilities ...
Just goes on and on. I think that SW should understand that just because a class can mele, range, AOE , burst etc one class should not be best at these.

I agere 100%, most changes in most threads have been way over the top and I've tried to argue that in many cases. And like those threads many of the changes suggested here are pretty outrageous, but when a whole mastery tree and accompanying stance is in such a state of unusability as scout is, changes are warranted.

I don't think a change that would buff skirmish stance just as much or more than scout is okay. I don't think a change that increases the realistically possible burst of scout is okay. I don't think the stance/spec should be buffed to include the benefits of skirmish for free. In essence I agree with not making every stance SW has perform on par with each other in all areas or that the class should be able to spec to perform better than other classes that fit into each respective niche SW can fill. But I still think every stance/spec should be functional and viable up to a certain point

[anarchypark]

As for that last part, why do you want any spec to remain unfunctional? That first line is the big problem the class has, does it make any sense for it to remain in a state where rotations being impossible to get off is the balancing factor?

because SW have access to other ranges?
staying 1 stance should be less functional. else it create unbalance.
u want class functioning like 40BW + 20slayer? or 40mara + 20magus?

i prefer 30lvl/30lvl distribution. i'm fine with not best at either.
it's price i can pay to be everywhere like shadow, long/mid/short range, adapting situations.
i still believe 1 stance SW is liability and balance changes should not encourage 1 stance.

Scout was long range moving sniper who lacks killing power. ( target ran out of range or got close dangerously )

means Scout have to change it's range(stance) to kill. to Skirmish or Assault.
Scout in mid range should not function properly. Skirmish is there for reason.

i'm against Scout covering mid range.
and fester buff seems to me covering mid range for Scout.

[dansari]

Spoiler:

b4 engie/magus buff Scout had the longest range.
siege was comfort zone for Scout. long range stationery dps made enemy rdps run off. it was huge advantage in siege.

after engie/magus buff Scout lost title of stationery rdps.
Guerrilla Training had usage in stationery rotation. none stop spam. now Scout can't stand still long enough thus GT has little use.
.

Probably a good thing. SW are not meant to be best at everything.
Just sounds like every SW change thread tries to bring each stance to the level of best of bread in that area.
Want top range to compete with best range class
Want best mele abilities ...
Just goes on and on. I think that SW should understand that just because a class can mele, range, AOE , burst etc one class should not be best at these.

SW is unique in that in can wear many hats based on situation. I want Scout to be a viable main tree for SWs to run. Does this mean I want SW to have the range of engy while hitting like a BW? No.. but if you are running two specialized tactics for that tree, you should feel powerful while in that stance. Like I've said before, the Assault changes were great. You can run 2-3 melee tactics and feel powerful while in melee (this doesn't mean you're the best melee... You don't have some key mdps tactics and abilities [snare immunity, charge], but it's enough to feel strong.) I want Scout to feel that way as well, and with these changes to EA and GT I think we would.

[dansari]

u want class functioning like 40BW + 20slayer? or 40mara + 20magus?

i prefer 30lvl/30lvl distribution. i'm fine with not best at either.

This is kind of an odd way to think about what SW is capable of, and I wouldn't try to rationalize it in that way. Basically, SW is good based on the tactics being run during the fight and what tools it has during that fight. You have glaring weaknesses based on the spec you're in. For example, if you're not running PD in a build and you're going full Assault.. you will be a threat up close, but you can easily be kited by squigs, shammies. If you're running a Skirmish/Scout build with Glass Arrow, you will be a very effective kiter but if you get caught, you have very little tools in Assault to continue being a threat. If you're running a Scout build after it gets tweaked, you will (hopefully) feel strong from range, but your kiting will be subpar when not running PD, you won't have an rkd to help you, and you'll hit like a noodle in melee. SW is all about give and take.

[Telen]

i prefer 30lvl/30lvl distribution. i'm fine with not best at either.

Any jack of all trade class in a archetype based game will have no place.
You have to have a place in the meta.

[lefze]

As for that last part, why do you want any spec to remain unfunctional? That first line is the big problem the class has, does it make any sense for it to remain in a state where rotations being impossible to get off is the balancing factor?

because SW have access to other ranges?
staying 1 stance should be less functional. else it create unbalance.
u want class functioning like 40BW + 20slayer? or 40mara + 20magus?

i prefer 30lvl/30lvl distribution. i'm fine with not best at either.
it's price i can pay to be everywhere like shadow, long/mid/short range, adapting situations.
i still believe 1 stance SW is liability and balance changes should not encourage 1 stance.

Scout was long range moving sniper who lacks killing power. ( target ran out of range or got close dangerously )

means Scout have to change it's range(stance) to kill. to Skirmish or Assault.
Scout in mid range should not function properly. Skirmish is there for reason.

i'm against Scout covering mid range.
and fester buff seems to me covering mid range for Scout.

Read the thread, what I'm trying to advocate is that any change should make heavily speccing into either scout/skirmish NOT make you function like the other spec by using spare points for dual speccing for the core strenght of both specs, while also keeping the current build options.

Which one of the fester buffs? And as for the changes covering mid range, define mid range and "covering" please, I utterly fail to see your point here, as both the other two stances do this far better even with the changes. At any rate, with the class being like it is now, you have more luck throwing fester from ranges where you have no business being, and where you would be better off in another spec. This needs to change, and proposal 1a is, again, a really nice and balanced way to go about it, as long as it's put on a different tactic.

[anarchypark]

Spoiler:

Probably a good thing. SW are not meant to be best at everything.
Just sounds like every SW change thread tries to bring each stance to the level of best of bread in that area.
Want top range to compete with best range class
Want best mele abilities ...
Just goes on and on. I think that SW should understand that just because a class can mele, range, AOE , burst etc one class should not be best at these.

i'm not trying to steal longest range title. it's engie/magus thing.
currently only themselves compete to dominate sniper range.
Scout/SH can add spice in that competition.
right under the nose of engie/magus. 5ft...

they have 188 range skill, SW/SH have range debuff skill. fair fight?
with GT range buff Scout can secure its long range territory again.
( which was lost by engie/magus and rkd change )

Spoiler:

This is kind of an odd way to think about what SW is capable of, and I wouldn't try to rationalize it in that way. Basically, SW is good based on the tactics being run during the fight and what tools it has during that fight. You have glaring weaknesses based on the spec you're in. For example, if you're not running PD in a build and you're going full Assault.. you will be a threat up close, but you can easily be kited by squigs, shammies. If you're running a Skirmish/Scout build with Glass Arrow, you will be a very effective kiter but if you get caught, you have very little tools in Assault to continue being a threat. If you're running a Scout build after it gets tweaked, you will (hopefully) feel strong from range, but your kiting will be subpar when not running PD, you won't have an rkd to help you, and you'll hit like a noodle in melee. SW is all about give and take.

yea maybe 1 full stance is opening more choices for players.
give big and take big. or give small, take small.
i hope this direction wouldn't hurt jack of all trade SW.

[anarchypark]

Spoiler:

Read the thread, what I'm trying to advocate is that any change should make heavily speccing into either scout/skirmish NOT make you function like the other spec by using spare points for dual speccing for the core strenght of both specs, while also keeping the current build options.

Which one of the fester buffs? And as for the changes covering mid range, define mid range and "covering" please, I utterly fail to see your point here, as both the other two stances do this far better even with the changes. At any rate, with the class being like it is now, you have more luck throwing fester from ranges where you have no business being, and where you would be better off in another spec. This needs to change, and proposal 1a is, again, a really nice and balanced way to go about it, as long as it's put on a different tactic.

It means playing Scout in 110~40 ft. I think 2sec is 30~40 ft.

[lefze]

Spoiler:

Read the thread, what I'm trying to advocate is that any change should make heavily speccing into either scout/skirmish NOT make you function like the other spec by using spare points for dual speccing for the core strenght of both specs, while also keeping the current build options.

Which one of the fester buffs? And as for the changes covering mid range, define mid range and "covering" please, I utterly fail to see your point here, as both the other two stances do this far better even with the changes. At any rate, with the class being like it is now, you have more luck throwing fester from ranges where you have no business being, and where you would be better off in another spec. This needs to change, and proposal 1a is, again, a really nice and balanced way to go about it, as long as it's put on a different tactic.

It means playing Scout in 110~40 ft. I think 2sec is 30~40 ft.

So I guess you didn't read the thread? For ranges of 30-40 either assault or skirmish performs better. Currently scout is ineffective at what you call "sniping" ranges, and there is no reason to run scout over skirmish even for sniping as skirmish has 98ft range and overall a MUCH better kit. Scout still lacks mobility and CC with the change. So basically unless Scout gets buffed as per something from the proposal, for it to become useful skirmish would have to get nerfed to only function at 65ft.

Scout has no place, and 1 second reduced cast time sure as hell won't make it outperform assault or skirmish "mid range".