[Review - Brief] [Choppa] Come and Git it!

[Tesq]

I don't agree with #2 but increasing to guard range sounds like a nice QOL change.

Spoiler:

I'm also in favor of dropping the cooldown to 30s as opposed to 1min, but I think that should be the case for a great number of high cooldown abilities in game, not necessarily because of a broken or underperforming ability.

Honestly, i am not a fan of my own option 1. I proposed it for the sake of it and because i knew some1 would inevitably come up with it anyway
On the first glance option 2 sounds like a huge buff, but also it takes 6 seconds to build up, wich can be an eternity in combat.
Also it buffs up to 150, i don't know how roadkillrobin comes to 240

228 is the value warbuilde give for aoe spec till 13pt skill rr70 for me, let's assume ch/kobs tough aura is 114, it's 2x the value, still it has a high CD, shammy one is better and range create problem in the use.

the only reason why ther is a ppl in range scaler is due buff toguhness trying to respec the type of fight you are in, so small scale you will have by chance avarange less ppl in range and in orvr definetly more.
I frankly dont see as ppl can see this as buff, the max value remain the same; and is lower than shammy or mara str/tough self buff for exemple. It also have 1 min CD it should be at least worth to last his 16 sec (refresh every time it goes up stack and then last stack is 10 sec). Similar a Bg buff which takes times with hate to goes up the principle is the same you get a later on return (builded in 6 sec cuz 1 sec ICD after each stack for then have 10 sec of +114 tough (cuz dont stack but overwrite chosen/kobs buff)

114/5=22.5 dmg less which are even less effective becuase you are just gona reduces a little pre amor mitigation which is in % , so for exemple if armor is 30% after all reduction then the real dps drop x hit is 15.66 because armor mitigation will absorb part of the toughness reduction in it.

15/16 dmg reduction for 16 seconds i dont get how this can be op seriously ppl.....it would require this 500 hits to save you 1k of life it's alredy scalign enough by his own with the scale of battle due how toughness work than also requiring a in range stacking check....

k have fear of the over buff but this is a quality of life change

[roadkillrobin]

Does it even stack with the rest of abundace of toughness buffs in the game? (It didn't last time I checked) If it doesn't it's a GDC better spent on something else like a HoT potion which is more effective and does actually stack with other stuff.

At moast you will get 240 from this (if you manage to hit 6 enemies, have no other buff and max the mastery) but the averge actual boost will be around 50-80 toughness. In many situations it's not gona do anything at all as you allready got a buff and doesn't hit more enemies then the higher toughness boost you allready got.

Also if you got a Shaman in the group you will basicly have a perma version of the maxed out buff pretty much consistantly.

This would be better to be changed to a flat damage reduction as it got much worse conflicts then range and the how it racks up stacks.

yes but you need to bring a shammy for that and is not coevalent to both sides(and these ae perfectly mirrored but core skills while shammy need to spec that), alredy give an option more be it cuz no shammy or shammy is in diff spec can alredy make this viable, with out turn this in a mega buff to chop/slayer imo

Talking about best case scenario here.
Moast of the time the buff won't do anything coz you're not gonna hit enough targets (even with extended 10 feet range) justify geting 50 toughness more then what a Chosen aura or any of the other toughness buff provides wich usually just makes it a waste of GCD when you really need it. It's supose to act as a semi AoE detaunt that doesn't break when using AoE skills. But it the effect is so effin small that it doesn't do much.

[Tesq]

Does it even stack with the rest of abundace of toughness buffs in the game? (It didn't last time I checked) If it doesn't it's a GDC better spent on something else like a HoT potion which is more effective and does actually stack with other stuff.

At moast you will get 240 from this (if you manage to hit 6 enemies, have no other buff and max the mastery) but the averge actual boost will be around 50-80 toughness. In many situations it's not gona do anything at all as you allready got a buff and doesn't hit more enemies then the higher toughness boost you allready got.

Also if you got a Shaman in the group you will basicly have a perma version of the maxed out buff pretty much consistantly.

This would be better to be changed to a flat damage reduction as it got much worse conflicts then range and the how it racks up stacks.

yes but you need to bring a shammy for that and is not coevalent to both sides(and these ae perfectly mirrored but core skills while shammy need to spec that), alredy give an option more be it cuz no shammy or shammy is in diff spec can alredy make this viable, with out turn this in a mega buff to chop/slayer imo

Talking about best case scenario here.
Moast of the time the buff won't do anything coz you're not gonna hit enough targets (even with extended 10 feet range) justify geting 50 toughness more then what a Chosen aura or any of the other toughness buff provides wich usually just makes it a waste of GCD when you really need it. It's supose to act as a semi AoE detaunt that doesn't break when using AoE skills. But it the effect is so effin small that it doesn't do much.

Remember the value scale in aoe mastery so some spec have a badder value than others + that's why option 2, plus if your group is not running any tough buff or is not active is a 228+ for you, my choppa could easily reac 400 toughness with that.

I think the value as a core skill for a not tank class is ok-ish considering also meccanic output dps.

[Bozzax]

I use this ability sometimes but ...

If you have a bo, shmy or a chosen in grp - don’t use it just don’t.

If you use toughness pot and roam solo and end up with 4+ enemies within 20 feet (not the case 99% of the time). You likely die but may as well pop it if your flee, charge and detaunt are all on cd.

If you use strength pot solo well you may consider using it but at 30ap and a wasted gcd with random low return you won’t see much diff.

What to do
Increase uptime > 50%
Consider making it a flat buff or recalc value when hit or better make it ramp up with hits as suggested

[Penril]

I mentioned i was gonna change the BDF rules in a different thread. While I haven't written them all yet, I can tell you in advance how it is gonna work (and will work from now in this thread).

Basically, leads decide what gets changed and what doesn't. They don't have the time to read all the Balance Discussion forum though, so I move any thread that I consider worthy of being discussed. At that point, you have to convince ME that a change needs to happen. If you succeed, I present the leads my conclusions and push for a change.

The reason for this change is that, as I explained, leads expect my feedback after any discussion. And i am done with moderating babies fighting each other; from now on, your discussions are with me. Those who know me know I am not intransigent; those who don't know me, well, will probably whine. Not that I care.

[Panzerkasper]

Tesq made a good point in this one I haven't really thought about.
If going for Option 2, a stacking up buff with 1sec icd, the skill will only have a full effect uptime of 4 seconds if the duration of 10 seconds is not increased.

Option 2 would make more sense this way:
With activation of the Skill you get 1 stack automatically and then it builds up on beeing hit to 6 stacks (1 sec icd) so it takes 5 seconds for the full effect and then it lasts for 10 seconds.
So the overall effect lingers for 15 sec and if we keep the cooldown at 1 min it has a downtime of 45 seconds.

Ofc there are better toughness buffs in the game like the shammy HoT, but the shaman has to invest heavily in the first tree to get it so imho it deserves to be better. A Chosen aura specced up to the knockdown buffs 102 last time i checked (and if tooltip is correct) if specced to Oppression ~114 i think. So even with no point in the aoe tree, the final buff will be a bit higher but also takes some time to build up.
I don't know what the BO bellow buffs, but i would guess its similar to the Chosen aura.

I have 2 thoughts behind this proposal: First make the skill less situational (as i said in its current form it it just good in a melee environment) and second it to be a small anti burst tool wich requires some foresight in combat, because you need to actually buff it before the enemy really starts hitting on you.

[Toldavf]

I would prefer an instant amount of toughness over a stacking buff.

In a group setting it would take far to long to actually kick in with any sort of effect, after all its very likely you will have some form of toughness buff already.

Generally i see this skill as a Tertiary panic button. On chopper your first objective to mitigate damage should be to drop rage. second you should be looking to either break root and leave or detaunt.

[Tesq]

I would prefer an instant amount of toughness over a stacking buff.

In a group setting it would take far to long to actually kick in with any sort of effect, after all its very likely you will have some form of toughness buff already.

Generally i see this skill as a Tertiary panic button. On chopper your first objective to mitigate damage should be to drop rage. second you should be looking to either break root and leave or detaunt.

you need to pre buff yourself, is need to be used before not after you will be focussed and each stack will refresh the duration till last one is applied then 10 sec duration; like whiel gap closing.

[footpatrol2]

Does it even stack with the rest of abundace of toughness buffs in the game? (It didn't last time I checked) If it doesn't it's a GDC better spent on something else like a HoT potion which is more effective and does actually stack with other stuff.

At moast you will get 240 from this (if you manage to hit 6 enemies, have no other buff and max the mastery) but the averge actual boost will be around 50-80 toughness. In many situations it's not gona do anything at all as you allready got a buff and doesn't hit more enemies then the higher toughness boost you allready got.

Also if you got a Shaman in the group you will basicly have a perma version of the maxed out buff pretty much consistantly.

This would be better to be changed to a flat damage reduction as it got much worse conflicts then range and the how it racks up stacks.

I am not for or against the proposed changes.

So I am pretty sure there are tactic's/abilities in this game that are designed for specific niche portions of the game.
Come and Git it falls into this category. When will choppa's not be able to get the 240 toughness abiity buff from shaman's? When they don't have direct line of sight to the shaman. When does this happen? It happens when the Choppa has used his postern door bypass ability and is assaulting the defender's on the ramparts/courtyard of a keep. In my viewpoint this is one of the main reason's why this ability is in the game. It is not the sole reason thou.

In my opinion, Entire spec lines and even some classes are dedicated to the keep assault phase of ORvR. You can make 6 man group comp's that are specifically designed for postern bypass and have classes built to support/heal those classes as they operate outside of LoS of their healer's.

[roadkillrobin]

In situations were Shamans have no LoS you're better of pushing detaunt and run away.

I tested best case scenarios of 240 toughness (quit a while ago) and the difference was 20% on the 3 sec cast spells. On low stat contribution skills it was less then 5% difference. So against AoE which this skill is meant to aid with, its less then that due to the AoE combat formula. (50%). And this is the best case scenario when you actually get the full buff of the skill.

It needs a complete redesign.