[Rejected] Path of Stabbin' / Squig Armour Proposal

[catholicism198]

So it's more of a "Rampage?"

Either way, melee squigs do need a viable gap closer, especially since they can't mount up while in squig armor anymore.

[Teefz]

Spoiler:

Path of Stabbin' Treatment.

This spec sucks, it can be fun sure but by and large it's little more than a novelty which serves to lock off some good faction abilities from actually being used. It also suffers from a lack of abilities making it less than viable in the hands of all but the most insane of players.

Personally I like the Squig Armour concept, the old cinematic was epic and that's how pretty much everyone wishes Squig Armour functions so put my mind to putting this into reality.


Click here to watch on YouTube

I propose -

- Moving Bad Gas and Big Bouncing to core abilities, unlocked at appropriate levels

- Change Bad Gas to be usable only within Squig Armour

- Place new ability Pounce at 9 points Path of Stabbin' (Squig Armour only)

- Place new ability Charge! at 13 points Path of Stabbin' (Squig Armour only)

- The ability to use CORE Quick Shootin' abilities within the Squig Armour though this will be coupled to an inherant -range debuff of being inside a smelly squig, minimally -50%, potentially more.

- The ability to remain within the Squig Armour and use it as a mount

New Ability Descriptions -





Reasoning -

Proposed changes would increase the viability and attractiveness of what is currently a joke tree, the pounce allows them to get into the fight without the cheese of current pounce spam, charge as well though that can also be used as an extraction ability for getting away from a bad situation. Core Quick Shootin' attacks at a much reduced range while within Squig Armour would flesh out attack chains and allow some level of versatility.

Thematically it all fits together nicely as well in my opinion.

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

Generally you covered pretty much everything there is to cover with this spec and to be honest I like the suggestions, though I do not believe Bad Gas! should be a core ability. This would open up the option to do Bad Gas! in the QS/BS specs, while having everything else on the class. This is not the way to go in my opinion. I guess you could argue that if the QS/BS squig wants to rush into enemy backlines to do a Bad Gas! he should be able to do so in terms of risk/reward. But honestly I believe Bad Gas! should be linked to Squig Armor and to the Path of Stabbin'. This raises a few problems though, as I'm liking the ideas of Charge & Pounce, while adding Big Bouncin to Core. Then I guess you could possibly replace Indigestion with Bad Gas! and/or make Indigestion core. It's a tough nut to crack, but it is without a shadow of a doubt a much needed focus on a spec that is, besides Bad Gas! and Wind Up Da Waaagh, worthless.

[Koha]

Well a speed buff of 75% for 10 sec, is one of the best charge except the SH is missing a snare/root immunity.

I personaly think that giving a jump and a charge + CD debuff to a class that already have many kiting tools and can still switch to rdps... is a bad idea.

aoe CD debuff on destro side is not easily accessible indeed.

I personnaly think that there are some abilities that can appear unbalanced on both sides, but they overall balance, if we consider group play and how these interacts together.
Balance can be broken easily with onesided changes, example :

Order : KoBS/SW crit tactics, SL CD debuff
Desto : DoK group cleanse (all heal debuffs) + Dok M2, Morale builder tanks

These advantages are not equivalent but balance each other in some way

[Avantis]

Let me give you my advice as i played this class for more than 6 years... With only Stabbin :

There is a lot of things that are very important to understand and that no one looks to note here :

First of all :

BIG SQUIG is BIG and visible. It looks stupid to say... but remember that... As soon as you will try to charge. People will notice you ! And focus on you ! Why ? Because you are lighter Cac of the game and they know you will die quickly.
+ They will snare / Stop / silence you as soon as they will see you incoming.

The Cac Squig Herder is very long to be prepare... Each RvR movement get longer : Remove Squig, call mount, remove mount, call squig, call small squig, etc... It can be very long and boring, and each "INC" phase, is quite a shame as you often need to set up small squig that "disappeared" and big squig form too.

You don't really need skills from "OUT of Squig" to work in "SQUIG" mode, believe me, you WONT have time to use them. Just because your couldown will be reset before you will use the skills you already have. And except : "Don't hit me", no CAC skills are usefull under SH form.

From my point of View...

The SH need only two thing :

- A charge with 'unstoppable/unsilence' state during the charge. It would get back to a more "savage" style fighting with perhaps a "negative" effect at the end... like 10 seconde after charge, -25 % of damage for 10 secondes. or Def debuff for 10 secondes.

- A mount State possible in Squig Mode.

Optionnaly,add 50 Init / Endu / PV in Squig form would really help before Conquerant Armors are available, indeed SH Cac need to raise up Balistics, Critics, PV, Init, Endu , Weapon skills to be "alife" even with guard and heal. OR optionnaly increase the "Back Bump" distance. To escape a little more to be Banged by everyone

When Conquerant armors will appears, stats will start to be a little more sufficient in set to be playable in SH mode

Last but not least :
Stabbing Squig is NOT made for duel. It's really a group syncrhonisation class with group skills ( Low Unique damage, more heavier AOE damage, AOE debuff CD, BUMP, Need for Guard & Heal, interrupt & Snare. ) And it need to stay like this. Don't expect to change it too much. Squig Herder is NOT Koup Tou or Marauder.

You are here to assist your group, inside or Outside of Squig accoding to situation, raise your morale or Gaz skills, and Impact at the good moment with it, gaz, bump, snare, etc... at the time it's needed, and covered with AOE damage.

( If you want advice on SH Stabbin Squig, i can help you ingame : Ask Ninjagob ( Same name on Offi ))

I always enjoyed playing SH Stabbin, so please be carefull to not remove what make it funny to play.

My best things about SH Stabbing is : Easy To Die like a ... more than anyone, But Sometimes, the Stabbin SH can inverse situation like no other class can do. And this is what make this class beautifull... Perhaps same as the Warhammer Battle game & "Fanatics" you decide to set up in your goblin Army... Sometimes it's Fantastic... Sometimes you just explode like a big balloon :p

[Zanilos]

Pounce with Bad Gas on the same class sounds like something that could be potentially game breaking for overall large scale RvR balance. The reason slayers/squigs aren't completely ridiculous with these abilities is because they have to push through the other team to drop it on healers, with pounce that is no longer a limitation. What makes it worse is that unlike DoKs, WPs cannot cleanse ailments, and cannot AoE cleanse ailments. That means that a bad gas drop = 1 group heal for 5s = dead warband in RvR very likely. So even a suicidal jump that has 16s cd with Bad Gas could be destructive.

Yeah this. Torque, you may be bad at bad gas, but its not a joke spec. The utility is very good.

Ask Ade about MLG bad gas at keeps.

[Tesq]

Pounce with Bad Gas on the same class sounds like something that could be potentially game breaking for overall large scale RvR balance. The reason slayers/squigs aren't completely ridiculous with these abilities is because they have to push through the other team to drop it on healers, with pounce that is no longer a limitation. What makes it worse is that unlike DoKs, WPs cannot cleanse ailments, and cannot AoE cleanse ailments. That means that a bad gas drop = 1 group heal for 5s = dead warband in RvR very likely. So even a suicidal jump that has 16s cd with Bad Gas could be destructive.

Yeah this. Torque, you may be bad at bad gas, but its not a joke spec. The utility is very good.

Ask Ade about MLG bad gas at keeps.

dead wb what?----> didn't order supposely assume that until CD increase in on slayer that's all good and well balanced?

you have a spamable cd decrease on a tank, something that destru dream and cry about from when chopa fasta was nerfed to the ground in CD.

You are able to counter it with SM, if the pounce is not spamable as the wl one then there is no issue the squig overextend for doign that anyway.
As long there is only 1 tool to arrive and none to escape back the trade off is assured.

[Athergic]

We already have sticky squigz as a charge/escape in my opinion, positioning is huge for stabby squig.

I think don't hit me already works in squig armor, though it says it doesn't. Maybe that should be fixed so people know they have an interrupt.

Also I think we need some benefit from the other trees. If we could use runaway from quick shooting in SA, that would fix a lot of mobility issues for squig herder.

Run away by or around the tanks, taking reduced damage, rush the BW or SW blow em up, sticky squigz back to safety.
you can do this with runaway tactic already, but it reduced my damage output to much I feel.

There are many under utilized tools the stabby squig herder has, it may be a novelty to some, and I may be insane
but I don't think its a joke.

I like the ideas, I just don't want to see a mirror effect go around. The abilities are already there they just need some tweaking perhaps. I am personally fine with the current state of the stabby squig herder.

Edit: I also forgot to mention getting stunned/cc'd into oblivion, but concealment and focused mind can help a little if your running the strength in numbas tactic, unfortunately that kills burst for me.

This is my main spec, and all I played in live, I don't want to lose my niche with my favorite class of all time.

Sorry for grammar and format, what can I say I am a goblin.

-Matrik Da squig

[Avantis]

However, perhaps it would be interesting to propose a set of weapon for medals : Weapon Skill / Artillery Skill / Critics instead of the current one with PA as Cac squig don't need PA boost at all...

[Rebuke]

Spoiler:

Pounce with Bad Gas on the same class sounds like something that could be potentially game breaking for overall large scale RvR balance. The reason slayers/squigs aren't completely ridiculous with these abilities is because they have to push through the other team to drop it on healers, with pounce that is no longer a limitation. What makes it worse is that unlike DoKs, WPs cannot cleanse ailments, and cannot AoE cleanse ailments. That means that a bad gas drop = 1 group heal for 5s = dead warband in RvR very likely. So even a suicidal jump that has 16s cd with Bad Gas could be destructive.

Yeah this. Torque, you may be bad at bad gas, but its not a joke spec. The utility is very good.

Ask Ade about MLG bad gas at keeps.

dead wb what?----> didn't order supposely assume that until CD increase in on slayer that's all good and well balanced?

you have a spamable cd decrease on a tank, something that destru dream and cry about from when chopa fasta was nerfed to the ground in CD.

You are able to counter it with SM, if the pounce is not spamable as the wl one then there is no issue the squig overextend for doign that anyway.
As long there is only 1 tool to arrive and none to escape back the trade off is assured.

If destro get what Torque is proposing, I want morale gained on block for the swordmaster and knight. Also I want the groupcleanse of WP being able to cleanse all destro incoming/outgoing healdebuffs and armor debuffs, OH OH OH OH! and add the ability for the WP to give more chance to proc spirit damage for the entire group.

oh wait...

Seriously how are people even suggesting any buff whatsoever to destro when it comes to RvR and warband+ scale fights.

Take up on the advice of Zanilos and contact Ade, he basically broke a stalemate on his bad gas SH because he used his brains and though outside the box.

Read the Balance Discussions rules - Penril

[Penril]

It's been 2 weeks; time to lock this thread and wait for the conclusions.