Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

[TenTonHammer]

I think you guys are looking at this too much from a solo class prespective


Shouldn't the fact that BO has the highest corp debuff in the game not be taken into consideration?

[Vandoles]

You hit the nail on the head by the way, squigs are a solo class and this causes the majority of balance issues. So instead of giving them a single target strong nuke by making the tactic let THEM pass through resist, why not consider giving them debuffs and group utility at the cost of soloing power? Why not remove the 50% bypass and add a strong utility component? And the other ability, which I haven't mentioned due to not knowing much about, it can also be rebalanced from a group perspective instead of a solo one.

[Vdova]

There must be tradeoffs. I really understand and respect it. Great idea is tie the tactic somehow to All by myself tactic. Without pet, You loose your CC(disarm), run away skill(kiting tool), but new door with different playstyle are opened. Moving it to 13 point is not bad idea neighter if there will be reason to even spec it.

My point is that in current state Poison arrer skill is just waste point in big shooting tree. There are 2 options: a) buff it to be worth matery point b)remove it and put there different and usefull tool insted.

Behind Ya for its cost has the same position. a) buff it to be worth 14 mastery points(increase dmg, add some side effects) b) remove it and give some dmg or group/cc utility insted(mirror to barage-AOE 40ft range insta cast, or ranged ST/AOE root, crit chance group buff 10s with 30s CD, or anything(space for ideas).

Off topic:
The whole point is that SH is not attractive class to compound it to any kind of 6 man composition. Lesser dmg outpoot(yes sustain, but we all know sustain is not what make kills), no group buff/s, and at the current state horrid Bad Gas skill which require SH go in to melee range which throws out the window whole idea off its "kitting" advancement over other RDPSers. Maybe for nearly spamable heal debuff, but destro already have chars with spamable heal debuffs(even AOE ones - DPS Zealot, DPS Dok)

[Penril]

I think you guys are looking at this too much from a solo class prespective


Shouldn't the fact that BO has the highest corp debuff in the game not be taken into consideration?

This is correct. It's also the reason why, when I moved this proposal to Discussions, I suggested thinking of something other than a 100% mirroring of Enchanted Arrows. However, keep in mind that WAAAGH is a very niche spec, which almost no BO goes for (they give up THC or DYG).

An alternative could be giving a Corp debuff element to Poison Arrer. The first time you use it, your damage will be the same; however, the target's Corp resistance is now reduced for 10 seconds. 5 seconds later PA is off CD and you use it again; 3 seconds later you hit the target for more damage and debuff his Corp resist for another 10 seconds. This way, If you want to keep the target Corp-debuffed, you have to spam PA which pretty much forces you to stand still 50% of the time.

As for Behind Ya!, increasing the base damage is an obvious one.

[peterthepan3]

Waaagh is a very niche spec as Penril said, and barely any BO goes for it. If the SW has a variant that can bypass resistances, then I don't see why the SH can't have it too - provided they give up mobility/other stuff for it. Perhaps even tying it to ABM so that the SH is forced to play as a lone sniper without a pet? (I'd probably go ABM, Ball, bal + ws and the new tactic if this became a thing)

[Tesq]

i agree on poison arrow per se being weak but the game dosen't need more one shooting stuff around, do you really need also to mirror it with the sw? the game should not be about perfect mirrors, cannot an alternative suggestion be made? like for exemple
be transformer in also a damage increase for x sec? that way it would be different from sw, it would not be a flat big value shoot which it still keeps to be cheesy in my opinion on sw, but a more proportional damages tool.

I think that something like 10% would do.

About behind ya, ista cast skills with high cd are meant to increase the burst when need, damage should be double or triple ; a simple damage buff would make the trick no more additional effects.

[peterthepan3]

Destro already has quite a few dmg incr abilities (Magus tactic, Sorc tactic).

Mirroring aside, it is obvious from the way the ability has been designed (3 second cast, 5 sec CD) that it is intended to be a nuke ability and so it should function as one. If the ability is moved into 13pts, the SH would have to give up quite a lot for it (rightly so), thus it should be able to function as a long-range sniper of sorts.

I would also advocate moving Run Away! up the tree, so as to alleviate any concerns about the SH still potentially having too much mobility (if it were to be given this new tactic)

tldr - mirroring isn't the issue here; rather, it's about making the tree function as it was intended (long-range ST burst) and giving the SH more varied and viable specs instead of the same old kite/midrange everyone uses.

[bloodi]

Putting Poison arrow at 13 only makes the current build better, letting them access finish em off at rank 40 while still having the range incrase, hdebuff and run away, in the current form you need rr 60 or at least 50 and a 4 pieces of merc/anni to get it.

Furthermore, if you buff behind ya they can get it easily also, making it 2 straight buffs to the current SH, i doubt he needs it at this moment.

The idea of the thread was to buff other playstiles, putting poison arrow at 13 and buffing Behind ya only makes the build most sh use better, so no, poison arrow is fine where it is.

[Valfaros]

Putting Poison arrow at 13 only makes the current build better, letting them access finish em off at rank 40 while still having the range incrase, hdebuff and run away, in the current form you need rr 60 or at least 50 and a 4 pieces of merc/anni to get it.

Furthermore, if you buff behind ya they can get it easily also, making it 2 straight buffs to the current SH, i doubt he needs it at this moment.

The idea of the thread was to buff other playstiles, putting poison arrow at 13 and buffing Behind ya only makes the build most sh use better, so no, poison arrow is fine where it is.

That's what I thought too about moving Poison arrer up. You really don't want to put finish em off further down because you will endup with a better Quick Shooting build which is already strong. The idea tieing the resi ignor to all by myself is quite good because this is something you think about to run anyway when you consider a rather stationary big shooting build. It would be nice if we could come up with something compleatly different to the SW variant but there isn't a option to create new stuff anyway at the moment.
For behind ya! maybe changing it to a rkd this really the only thing I could think off besides just pushing it's dmg. As said quick shooting already performs quite good so I think if this got changed like this it should also be tied to a specific quick shooting nerv.

[peterthepan3]

Good points, I hadn't thought about that. Perhaps it would be better to replace the AP tactic high in the tree with this new proposed tactic, so that anyone wishing to spec for a strong RA would have to go high into the tree? Agreed that we don't really want to make the mobile spec any more powerful.