[Black Orc] You Got Nuffin'

[Collateral]

Of course it would be for group, otherwise no point in having the tactic really. If you move it up in the tree and give it the ability I mentioned, I think it would be worth it in tank spec. I don't know what things are possible to do currently, but maybe add a heal component only if you're running the greenest. Would encourage people to spec that tree more, and spec more tanky in general imo.

[Gangan]

3. Propose a viable solution to the problem.

-a) Make the tactic only proc while in Da Greenest bellow.(And possibly move it higher in the masterytree, if deemed too strong)
-make the heal last 20 seconds instead of 10 (same amount of heal but takes 2x as long)
-make the heal be able to re-apply itself if procced after 15 seconds (a 5 second window for reapplication) and stack with the
previous heal, also refreshing it. Maximum stacks: 5 ---> You can gain a stack every 15 seconds, but only if you're being
attacked (since it only procs in Da Greenest) ---> Counterplay: don't attack in those 5 seconds.
This might even make Da Greenest bellow a viable choice, since it gets outshined by Da Biggest in every way.

...

b2) giving it a 10% critical damage reduction
portion

I thought of some kind of combo out of this two proposals.
- Bind it to Da Greenest
- Every time Da Greenest procs, your group gets an additional buff You got Nuffin'
- This proc lasts 9sec and is reaplied every 3sec, stacking up to 3x
- For each stack the chance to be crit-hit is reduced by 1.5% (4.5% in total) or the crit-damage taken is reduced by 5% (15% in total)
(Values are discussable of course^^)
The tactic however should be placed higher in the tree, as it would be to powerful for 4 points.

I my opinion, with this changes it would fit nicely into the "tanky" boss path, as it would espacially boost the role of mitigating the incoming damage for your group. It's a simple concept: as long as you are taking damage, your group has to take less. Combined with other Da Greenest-skills, like Rock 'ard and Big Swing / Big Brawlin' and of course the armor/resi-buff itself, I would guess you could take a nice chunk out of the enemies potential damage.
It shouldn't be to hard to keep the buff stacked in group fights, as long as you stay close to your guarded target, that's under attack or stand in the frontrow during a push/defense in rvr.

[DokB]

Solution a) The problem with the tactic doesn’t lie with being able to reapply/refresh it, it’s mainly the low healing amount and the time between ticks. If you double the amount of time the buff lasts but don’t adjust the healing amount, then it just makes it worse.
Solution b) Tactic is within the Boss tree which is built around group buffs, therefore it should remain a group orientated buff of some sort.

B1) Even a 100% heal amount increase doesn’t make the tactic worth taking, the time in between heal ticks and the amount won’t save you or your group mates from burst in a group setting or larger. It’s basically fluff healing. Admittedly it would be decent in solo play however.

B2) 10% Crit Chance Reduction is the most preferable of the options here since that is the BO’s biggest weakness but like others said, definitely too powerful for a 4 point tactic.
What about swapping places with Big Brawlin? Or would it still be too low in the tree you feel?

[Tesq]

a crit "chance" reduction is too powerfull for the mastery, this is alredy a very good mastery to spec into; it alredy give BO access a second aoe CC other than his base aoe punt(tactic)+ also give a wep skill wide group buff is it's not gogin stat steal (tactic)
even the 13pt skill is definetly GOOD.
This is alredy a very good mastery especially for every melee train, add another VERY desiderable effect here is a bit too much imo.
Plus 10% crit chance reduction is too much, if you want counter order stack you'll jsust need 7% for rvr.

what about go along with crit dmg reduction just increase the % of the op proposal from 10% to 25% and bind it to "big un" for 2h use.
You even have a 2h mastery core skill and no really use for 2h in most BO spec....

[DokB]

a crit "chance" reduction is too powerfull for the mastery, this is alredy a very good mastery to spec into; it alredy give BO access a second aoe CC other than his base aoe punt(tactic)+ also give a wep skill wide group buff is it's not gogin stat steal (tactic)
even the 13pt skill is definetly GOOD.
This is alredy a very good mastery especially for every melee train, add another VERY desiderable effect here is a bit too much imo.
Plus 10% crit chance reduction is too much, if you want counter order stack you'll jsust need 7% for rvr.

what about go along with crit dmg reduction just increase the % of the op proposal from 10% to 25% and bind it to "big un" for 2h use.
You even have a 2h mastery core skill and no really use for 2h in most BO spec....

Spoiler:

Actually the Path of Da Boss isn’t a very good tree anymore in my eyes. The only good skill this tree had was Big Brawlin and now that it’s been gimped, there isn’t much reason to go up it. Rock ‘Ard is still not worth it. NCM has been intentionally changed from its live version (found here: https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/8653 ) so it doesn’t stack on your main defensive target. The “group wide” WS buff tactic is a dubious claim at best since the tactic only works 30ft around your defensive target so it definitely will not always be hitting your entire group.

Da Greenest bellow is almost always covered by armour pots and classes with resist buffs (Chosen/Shaman/Zealot) and is only ran if you lack these classes or if you’re part of the Black Toof Clan where they usually run 1 BO up Da Greenest to make use of a max resist/armour aura bellow and the improved FML buff and Big Brawlin. 90% of the time, your stat steal bellow is better to run while in a melee train group.

Waaagh still only benefits DPS zealots/Sorcs and your Skullthumper/Loudmouth procs. Red Frenzy is okay but it’s difficult to maintain and you ultimately sacrifice too much to go up that tree all the way unless you are building a group around AA % haste/aoe damage. THC/Waaagh can be done but you still have to drop either Gork Smash or NiDF and be 70 rr.

I’d agree that a flat 10% reduction is too high a figure, especially since they would be tied to your war bellows and they are fairly easy/straight forward to proc.
Since Trivial Blow doesn’t work, I’m not sure the devs have the power to even change the bellow if they wanted to a crit damage reduction but if they could then I’d certainly be open to discussing that option.

[Collateral]

The tree is very very far from being very good. Aoe snare is meh at best, ws buff is crap, waaagh is meh, bubble is crap, ygn is crap, wez bigger is crap. Absolutely no one specs this tree for melee trains unless you are in btc. It's pretty much the last tree you wanna spec atm. Same for wb play. But I'm going off topic here.

It doesn't have to be flat % decrease. Also, if devs will change it to crit reduction, it will definitely have to go up the tree, so don't forget that as well. Maybe make it 5% with 10s duration, unable to refresh, as the tactic already is.

[Bozzax]

Yep BB (old version) and x2 WS buff (old version) was the only things that made right tree worth spec.

When it comes to crit damage reduction I dont think this should be added unless it is mirrored 100% to order. (For obvious reasons mit affecting abilities should be equal for realms. x2 spirit is an example how bad it is when they aren’t)

IF it is added it should be placed top trer so sacrifices needs to be made to get it. Problem with adding crit reduction or crit damage reduction to any class is that it likely makes the classes mandatory (resist auras come to mind).

Even tho right tree is in a sorry state I dont think one tactic should be made strong enough to carry it. What I mean is making YGN stack up 2-3 times or shorten the duration would go a long way for a low tactic

[Tesq]

as penril said, wep skill dont stack but is viable if you dont use stat steal for whaever reason thus making the mastery viable, i do agree that stat steal is better but that's because it hardly cant be......You need to leave aside stats steal because working around that way then anything should be balanced to replace stats steal.....stat steal must be balanced with other war bellow logically (point?) to give worth alternatives. Those alternatives are there to be able to have group variety if not then you could jsut ask to rewamp entirely 2 war bellow into 2 not war bellow skill so to keep the stasts steal for every mastery.
it's not like that.....you all know that the fault of the stats steal to be this good his is own and a bit of the oterh war bellow.
If you then look at the other 2 mastery da boss is the one with the most (quantity) group wide bufff :

-no 5 sec aoe snare on 10 sec CD is useless idk where you took this info can't really agree on that sy, you can say it will hit harder in rvr when you face frontline done by blob of tanks (what dosen't then ? it's even right that happen ... ) for all the rest it's still a tool you can use once every assit swap to snare 9 ppl and it's a 360 degree snare so you can use it even while you are totally running way from enemy unlike bg/kobs aoe snares. Plus for have a 50% update time it also came with a build in cast time decrease.

-waaagh AA speed increase is good for any melee train and you can at least keep up this a 50% of the time since builder tell me last 5 sec and CD is 5 sec.

-absorb bubble while not op is still 1 thing you can do more when all your long CD stuff are in CD or you are moving from point A to point B or you cant punt enemy and try put more pressure wont help. If punt away after had throw challenge you can also use absorb while you move back in guard range; + is group wide again, it may just worth half GCD but if that GCD can help healers recover from the burst it could even save the whole group; is tricky but healers absorb work the same way, it's a no conditional absorb it have his weakness and it have his ok-ish points and the CD is low 10 sec.

everything in this mastery while not be overperforming or be perfect is VIable "at least" something most of classes can't clam to have (exept for we'z bigger) and in some case even unique on top of that.

on the other 3 mastery there are common things between each tank:
-ap drain
-panic button
-kd
offensive tactics
-enemy dmg debuff

etc

Da boss is alredy THE support mastery and it also have unique supports as said above which other destru tanks dont have.

aoe snare (only on bg), group--AA buff (unique) , group--wep skill (unique), group--absorb (unique as tanks)

an AOE crit chance reduction is worth solo to make a mastery worth or even a tank worth for group and from what we learned from kobs years of opness make able to take that + other good tools it's way too good, thus the currently situation of the mastery if feel way to good. Not all option must be fit togheter efficently at 100% if you use stats steal you wont use wep skill buff (tough i agree it should stack is still viable in other set up and per se is not bad as group buff and is rather unique).

About some post above about range of some buff, in case of wep skill and AA buff please dont be silly, melee train will just band togheter close each other, or anyway guard distance which is 30 feets. The CD of the AA buff allow you to frequently refresh it and and when you focus you are anyway close on the same target; i dont see how you could miss buff ppl sy... and even if you could it would became a skill-player/group related thing and it's anyway easy fixable 5 sec later when CD ends for AA haste and when you want for wep skill buff.

[Bozzax]

You are wrong tesq full brawler (avoiding CD on Big Swing) and da biggest is x10 better for your grp or a left + mid build with KD + biggest

[DokB]

At the risk of going full off topic derailment and getting a warning, I'm just gonna say that you are mistaken about most of the stuff you just posted Tesq. You might think it works on paper, but it's highly inefficient and doesn't work in practice.