Sorc - Chilling Gusts

[Olderico]

My viewpoint is that an undefendable AOE dot operates much like Raze would, with half the build time before dropping and almost like a set and forget at the beginning of a fight. Say you set IS on an enemy band: 5 sorcs at ~150 per tick, give you two GCDs to set it up on several targets. That's still about 4 ticks at ~750hp every 3 seconds that's undefendable. You can now count on that damage sticking for the most part (you argue that you can just cleanse it, but isn't it really easy to mask dots in a wb?).

Additionally, stop falsely equivocating Burn Through with undefendable Ice Spikes. They would operate quite differently.

I’ll totally agree with that.
If the point is “burst up “ CG tactic, there is more viable solution to follow instead to grant undefendable effects.

A possible way, maybe, will be that on first post

Random side "proposal" possibilities if nothing above is of interest:
-1 Change CG: "All of your Path of Calamity abilities are 15% harder to Block and Disrupt"
-2 Change CG: "Any time Chillwind/IS is Disrupted/Blocked, you will do 10% more dmg during next 10 seconds"
-3 Change CG: "All of your Path of Calamity abilities have 20% more range"

With one of This little adjustment, CG tactic will be more appreciated .

Spoiler:

To be honest my approach to make any changes on a class will also must considered its mirror, and what’s happen about balance between both.
My view point is that BW have a nice and good working tactic, and we can consider to apply one of that to change CG:
-1 manage CG as Wildfire ( BW patch of conflagration, 11 point tact): in this case we take an advantage for the entire class tree, modify the rule tipe from “ if doing dmg” to “ on hit”;
-2 manage CG as Smoldering Ember (BW patch of immolation, 11 point tact): in this case we avoid the condition “on dmg “ from CG and use the condition “if removed than reapply”

This is precisely something we don't do. It's fine to look at other classes for inspiration on an idea, but immediately jumping to "BW must be balanced in X way if Z change occurs goes against rule #3. - Dan viewtopic.php?f=96&t=11105#p113599

Less and little modification will make it more funny
IMHO

[Atropik]

My viewpoint is that an undefendable AOE dot operates much like Raze would, with half the build time before dropping and almost like a set and forget at the beginning of a fight. Say you set IS on an enemy band: 5 sorcs at ~150 per tick, give you two GCDs to set it up on several targets. That's still about 4 ticks at ~750hp every 3 seconds that's undefendable. You can now count on that damage sticking for the most part (you argue that you can just cleanse it, but isn't it really easy to mask dots in a wb?).

Additionally, stop falsely equivocating Burn Through with undefendable Ice Spikes. They would operate quite differently.

I’ll totally agree with that.
If the point is “burst up “ CG tactic, there is more viable solution to follow instead to grant undefendable effects

Spoiler:

1. Noone masks dots in zerg fights, theres just no need for that.
2. Noone actually cleanse dots in zerg fights, theres only 1 dots in 5 secs you can cleanse, having 20 dots applied on you in tha time stap.
3. Noone actually rely on dont in zerg fights, cause the more fighters you have, the more instant dmg you can output on you enemies, the less effective dots are.
4. IS was undefendable for 10 fkn years. And noone was scared of it. Or do we have some experts who think IS was OP in pre-dot changes era? Never heard about that.
5. And after that, You compared dot (!!!!!!!!!!) with Raze, and came to conclusion they are otw to be almost equal. Dansari are you mad? You have no idea about how things are going in this game.

1. My point exactly.
2. My point exactly.
3. Not now, but you might if you had a 65ft aoe dot that was undefendable, through HtL and other +disrupt bonuses
4. K
5. Because it would function as an undefendable, 65ft aoe damaging ability, albeit less damage per tick, more time between ticks, but with a longer timer. And that's like, your opinion man. - Dan

Some honest feedback here.

Talking about current proposal, i believe any of them could be implemeted and that will change nothing, cause we have archetypes and classes suffering or getting benefits from meta, and not a single ability or tactic been undefendable may have any influence on that.

Bw has undefendable fireballs, and noone get shocked of it, and not a single guy being marked blue compares FB+BurnThrough with Cannon Smash, and talks about how overpowered FB+BT is.

[Bozzax]

Why not? Add GoN to Chilling Gusts together with Ice Spikes and Chillwind. Bump GoN to 13pts and restore it to DD (procing like mirror ID).

[Olderico]

My viewpoint is that an undefendable AOE dot operates much like Raze would, with half the build time before dropping and almost like a set and forget at the beginning of a fight. Say you set IS on an enemy band: 5 sorcs at ~150 per tick, give you two GCDs to set it up on several targets. That's still about 4 ticks at ~750hp every 3 seconds that's undefendable. You can now count on that damage sticking for the most part (you argue that you can just cleanse it, but isn't it really easy to mask dots in a wb?).

Additionally, stop falsely equivocating Burn Through with undefendable Ice Spikes. They would operate quite differently.

I’ll totally agree with that.
If the point is “burst up “ CG tactic, there is more viable solution to follow instead to grant undefendable effects

1. Noone masks dots in zerg fights, theres just no need for that.
2. Noone actually cleanse dots in zerg fights, theres only 1 dots in 5 secs you can cleanse, having 20 dots applied on you in tha time stap.
3. Noone actually rely on dont in zerg fights, cause the more fighters you have, the more instant dmg you can output on you enemies, the less effective dots are.
4. IS was undefendable for 10 fkn years. And noone was scared of it. Or do we have some experts who think IS was OP in pre-dot changes era? Never heard about that.
5. And after that, You compared dot (!!!!!!!!!!) with Raze, and came to conclusion they are otw to be almost equal. Dansari are you mad? You have no idea about how things are going in this game.

Some honest feedback here.

Talking about current proposal, i believe any of them could be implemeted and that will change nothing, cause we have archetypes and classes suffering or getting benefits from meta, and not a single ability or tactic been undefendable may have any influence on that.

Bw has undefendable fireballs, and noone get shocked of it, and not a single guy being marked blue compares FB+BurnThrough with Cannon Smash, and talks about how overpowered FB+BT is.

If we try to speak about balance through mirror class, why u compare direct dmg to dot?? Why u think is better make this dot “virtually “ un defendable like BW have on direct dmg ability?? There’s more simply way to follow to solve mirroring gap
Imho

[Atropik]

If we try to speak about balance through mirror class, why u compare direct dmg to dot?? Why u think is better make this dot “virtually “ un defendable like BW have on direct dmg ability?? There’s more simply way to follow to solve mirroring gap
Imho

Actually i compared direct dmg to m3, like he compared dot to m2, that way i tried to show how much weaker regular abilities are, and the fact they are undefendable or not doesnt have any sense.

Also i dont think IS or that tactic should be reworked, cause that way weare only going to waste devs time, but not overpower the abilities itself.

And, yes, mirroring is the only way to balance classes. Of course, if the balancing is on the Devs table atm.

Spoiler:

Look at that:
1. Shades of Death was designed as a mirror to Funnel Power, it supposed to make enemy recieve an additional dmg on every ability, by effecting target and not the caster himself. What do we have on practice - FP is a mandatory skill, SoD - forgotten crap.

2. Frostbite used to be a mirror of Burning Iron, it should prevent enemy from using abilities, one with disarming effect, the other - with AP loss. On practice - ap drain doesnt work.

3. Shadow Knifes = FBB, FBB was just a little bit more target concentated, while SK - more aoe based, but after aoe nerf in 2010 came alive, SK lost its slot on sorcs pannel, and FBB is still the greatest instant nuke BW has.

And we can continue the list till the next morning, but the only abilities that we have realy balanced - are mirrors< they ar like Firebolt - Doombolt, have you ever heard any issues with them? no? Surprising/

All the history of this game, the way it displays to us, shouting - cross-mirroring may not work as long as we talk about balance. And i truly belive, all the suggestions we have here are mostly cries for the up/nerf of players whose classes are fall uot of meta.

History of the class is irrelevant. We're interested in how it's functioning now and tackling underperforming/overperforming abilities & trees. - Dan

[Atropik]

5. Because it would function as an undefendable, 65ft aoe damaging ability, albeit less damage per tick, more time between ticks, but with a longer timer.

My point is that its not a DAMAGING ability, its a Dot with no initial damage, it has to be stacked up to 5 times for 30 seconds (so renewed afte 15 seconds) so it could blow away 7k hp. Simple math says, you have to face 2 wbs in 65ft front, and tank them for 30 seconds so undefendable IS could have some pressure on your hp bar.

Theres nothing to be scared of, Dan, trust me.

[dansari]

5. Because it would function as an undefendable, 65ft aoe damaging ability, albeit less damage per tick, more time between ticks, but with a longer timer.

My point is that its not a DAMAGING ability, its a Dot with no initial damage, it has to be stacked up to 5 times for 30 seconds (so renewed afte 15 seconds) so it could blow away 7k hp. Simple math says, you have to face 2 wbs in 65ft front, and tank them for 30 seconds so undefendable IS could have some pressure on your hp bar.

Theres nothing to be scared of, Dan, trust me.

And that's fine. That's your opinion. Others (and I) seem to have differing opinions on the viability of an undefendable aoe dot in orvr. Is there currently anything that's undefendable as an aoe in the game besides morales?

[Atropik]

And that's fine. That's your opinion. Others (and I) seem to have differing opinions on the viability of an undefendable aoe dot in orvr. Is there currently anything that's undefendable as an aoe in the game besides morales?

All Out Assault! is, it has almost the same dps, a man surrounded by 5 kotbses should die in pain on you logic.

[dansari]

And that's fine. That's your opinion. Others (and I) seem to have differing opinions on the viability of an undefendable aoe dot in orvr. Is there currently anything that's undefendable as an aoe in the game besides morales?

All Out Assault! is, it has almost the same dps, a man surrounded by 5 kotbses should die in pain on you logic.

I hope that you can see the difference between a dot sticking to you for 15s from 65ft away and a pulsing pbaoe ability within 30ft of a tank.

[Atropik]

I hope that you can see the difference between a dot sticking to you for 15s from 65ft away and a pulsing pbaoe ability within 30ft of a tank.

As long as their damage can be ignored, i actually cant.